

#1
Posted Jan 09 2014 - 03:43 PM
I have always gone for the former, but I spent quite a time recently experimenting with the staggered idea, aiming to get a difference of roughly 10deg F from inner to outer. It did not seem to give any advantage...
#2 TvO - guest
Posted Jan 09 2014 - 04:26 PM


#3
Posted Jan 09 2014 - 06:06 PM
However, the program actually displays the three core temps inside the tire which are averaged to compute the tire pressure and then grip.. The tread temps are not displayed (unless you are using Pribluda). The highest of the three tread temps is also used to compute grip.
So even tire temps within the setup menu doesn't necessarily mean you are getting the most grip. Only experiment will tell.
Edited by Lee200, Jan 09 2014 - 06:06 PM.
#4
Posted Jan 09 2014 - 10:46 PM
Lee200, on Jan 09 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:
However, the program actually displays the three core temps inside the tire which are averaged to compute the tire pressure and then grip.. The tread temps are not displayed (unless you are using Pribluda). The highest of the three tread temps is also used to compute grip.
So even tire temps within the setup menu doesn't necessarily mean you are getting the most grip. Only experiment will tell.
Lee, isn't overall tire temp range more important than even tire temps across the tire? For example, If optimum temp range for tire grip is between 190-220, just to throw out some numbers, isn't it more important to be in that range than it is to be 161 degrees of temperature across the tires?
Dave
Edited by dbell84, Jan 09 2014 - 10:47 PM.
#5
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 07:06 AM
#6 TvO - guest
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 07:55 AM
#7
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 08:35 AM
#8
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 10:12 AM
I'll try to answer each of these questions:
1. There is only one optimum temperature and grip is highest when the tire temperature is exactly at optimum. Above and below optimum, the grip decreases. There is no defined range over which grip is maximum. But as you can see from the spreadsheet, if the tire temp is kept within 25 degrees Kelvin or so of optimum, you are getting close to maximum grip. The tire temp used to compute grip is the maximum of the three tread temps.
2. There is only one optimum pressure and grip is highest when the tire pressure is exactly at optimum. Above and below optimum, the grip decreases. There is no defined range over which grip is maximum. From the spreadsheet, if the tire pressure is within a couple of psi of optimum, you are getting close to maximum grip. There is no excuse for not achieving optimum pressure though as you can adjust it in the setup menu. Pressure is based on the setup menu pressure and is adjusted by the average of the three core temps.
Conduction heating and cooling is simulated between the three core temps and the three tread temps...they affect each other. So for most drivers, equaling the core temps is a good goal as that also tends to equal the tread temps.
The setup menu displays the three core temps. Pribluda can display the three core and the three tread temps.
If you are a very slow driver such as I who cannot get enough heat into the tires, you possibly can get better grip by having one tread temp higher than the other two. This is because grip is based on the highest of the three tread temps. Only experimentation will tell.
Attached Files
Edited by Lee200, Jan 10 2014 - 12:53 PM.
#9
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 12:14 PM
#10
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 12:58 PM
Lee200, on Jan 10 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:
I'll try to answer each of these questions:
1. There is only one optimum temperature and grip is highest when the tire temperature is exactly at optimum. Above and below optimum, the grip decreases. There is no defined range over which grip is maximum. But as you can see from the spreadsheet, if the tire temp is kept within 25 degrees Kelvin or so of optimum, you are getting close to maximum grip. The tire temp in use is the maximum of the three tread temps.
2. There is only one optimum pressure and grip is highest when the tire pressure is exactly at optimum. Above and below optimum, the grip decreases. There is no defined range over which grip is maximum. From the spreadsheet, if the tire pressure is within a couple of psi of optimum, you are getting close to maximum grip. There is no excuse for not achieving optimum pressure though as you can adjust it in the setup menu. Pressure is based on the setup menu pressure and is adjusted by the average of the three core temps.
Conduction heating and cooling is simulated between the three core temps and the three tread temps...they affect each other. So for most drivers, equaling the core temps is a good goal as that also tends to equal the tread temps.
The setup menu displays the three core temps. Pribluda can display the three core and the three tread temps.
If you are a very slow driver such as I who cannot get enough heat into the tires, you possibly can get better grip by having one tread temp higher than the other two. This is because grip is based on the highest of the three tread temps. Only experimentation will tell.
Interesting, first you talk of real life or GPL, or both? Secondly, it's a shame the tires are modelled with grip based on highest of 3 temps...that's why ppl use such high tirepressures in mods I guess (like default), when the tiretemps are all over the place, but it seems to be faster...I seem to run lower pressures than most...
Personally I have always setup pressure and camber on roadcourses evening out tiretemps. But this new knowledge will make me to use a new approach...
PS: Lee, why should I run 75/75/4 rather than 50/50/1, when the locking percentage is the same...what's the (dis)advantage in running more clutches keeping the same locking percentage?
Edited by Robert Fleurke, Jan 10 2014 - 12:59 PM.
#11
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 03:22 PM
Uh, the differential physics are a totally different ball of wax. There are several threads that cover this in pretty good detail. But to answer your question, if two different diff settings result in the same locking percentage, there is absolutely no difference in how the car reacts. So there is no advantage of one setting over the other.
#12
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 03:23 PM
Iestyn16, on Jan 10 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:
I use F, but I believe Pribluda can display C if desired.
#13
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 03:47 PM
#15
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 05:27 PM
Lee200, on Jan 10 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:
Uh, the differential physics are a totally different ball of wax. There are several threads that cover this in pretty good detail. But to answer your question, if two different diff settings result in the same locking percentage, there is absolutely no difference in how the car reacts. So there is no advantage of one setting over the other.
Thanks, the spreadsheet does only apply to GPL67, and not to other mods I now understand. Also thanks for answering my off-topic question, thought more friction might cause slight power-loss with more clutches (not sure if it is modelled in GPL's physics), but should expand on that in a different thread.
Always good to learn new things and discovering new info about Grand Prix Legends!
Edited by Robert Fleurke, Jan 10 2014 - 05:29 PM.
#16
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 05:32 PM
#17
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 05:54 PM
Saiph, on Jan 10 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:
Thanks for the tip. I'll give that a try in the future. I don't relly worry about getting my tire temps exactly even but I'll lean towards making the inside hotter now.
#18
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 06:10 PM
Edited by Robert Fleurke, Jan 10 2014 - 07:18 PM.
#19
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 06:24 PM
#20
Posted Jan 10 2014 - 06:26 PM
K = F
275 35
300 80
325 125
350 170
360 188
375 215
380 225
400 260
Am I reading Lee's spreadsheet correctly? As I understand it, 1.0 = 100% grip, so .917 = 91.7%.
If so, it seems there's at least 90% max grip over a wide range? From what it looks like to me, most of the time my tires are up around 95% of max. For an average driver not working on a WR attempt, how critical is it to seek absolute optimum tire temps, on average, given the big range of variation on a typical lap? (As evident using TireTemp utility).
Edited by John Woods, Jan 10 2014 - 06:28 PM.
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