Jump to content


- - - - -

Jim Clark Lf Braking


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Pete Gaimari

Pete Gaimari

    Jim Clark

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,068 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado
  • Interests:Racing and Muzzleloader Hunting
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 25 2013 - 01:57 PM

Here's how he would have done it in the Lotus 58. Two brake pedals.


Posted Image

Edited by Pete Gaimari, Jul 25 2013 - 02:12 PM.


#2 David Wright Lo67

David Wright Lo67

    Denny Hulme

  • GTLW Crew
  • 433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL, GTL and P&G
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Jul 26 2013 - 04:35 AM

Are you sure its a 58?  I thought the 76 was the first Lotus with 4 pedals.  It had an electric clutch when on the move freeing the left foot for braking.  Years ahead of its time but it wasn't successful.

Edited by David Wright Lo67, Jul 26 2013 - 04:38 AM.


#3 Pete Gaimari

Pete Gaimari

    Jim Clark

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,068 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado
  • Interests:Racing and Muzzleloader Hunting
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 26 2013 - 08:41 AM

I took it from the iRacing forum. It said it was a Lotus 58, and Hill tested the car. Jim was itching to try the car, but was killed before he had a chance. :(

#4 TurboMan

TurboMan

    Jim Clark - Gilles Villeneuve - Tazio Nuvolari

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 465 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain
  • Interests:GPL, GTR2, Music
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Jul 26 2013 - 10:03 AM

Here it says that it's a Lotus 58:

http://peterwindsor....dwood-graphics/

It's an F2 car of 1968, there isn't much information about this car on the Internet.

View PostPete Gaimari, on Jul 26 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

I took it from the iRacing forum. It said it was a Lotus 58, and Hill tested the car. Jim was itching to try the car, but was killed before he had a chance. :(

R.I.P. Jim Clark

#5 David Wright Lo67

David Wright Lo67

    Denny Hulme

  • GTLW Crew
  • 433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL, GTL and P&G
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Jul 26 2013 - 02:16 PM

Well you learn something new every day.  Not sure how they left foot braked and used the clutch at the same time. Clutchless downchanges perhaps.  I have read several articles/book sections on the 56 but none mentioned the 4 pedal layout.

#6 benzman

benzman

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 395 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia
  • Interests:Just about anything about the real world as opposed to fantasy.
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 26 2013 - 02:17 PM

This brings a couple of thoughts to mind.  We all know that F1 drivers of the period could not LFB because of the steering column position, but were they aware of any advantage that LFB would have given them, and would they have done it if they could have?  How long has LFB been around and who started it?  My guess is that it was Scandinavian rally drivers in front-wheel drive cars.  Regardless, I will continue right foot braking with my G25 with the three pedals and gated gearshift.  I am an authenticity tragic!

#7 David Wright Lo67

David Wright Lo67

    Denny Hulme

  • GTLW Crew
  • 433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL, GTL and P&G
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Jul 26 2013 - 03:34 PM

Chapman got the idea from experience at Indianapolis where left foot braking was used.  When it was introduced in the Lotus 76, Lotus's drivers were Peterson and Ickx.  Ickx didn't like it but Peterson, who had a background in karts (2 pedals) was more open to the idea.  Presumably at Indy, there is no need to change gear once you are up to speed.  As stated above, the Lotus 76 initially had an electro-hydraulic clutch operated by a button on the gear lever to free the left foot for braking.  The clutch pedal was for starting from rest only.

While the Lotus 58 is a puzzle, I'd suggest that even if the steering column wasn't an issue, it would be difficult to left foot brake and downchange gears at the same time.

Edited by David Wright Lo67, Jul 26 2013 - 04:17 PM.


#8 Pete Gaimari

Pete Gaimari

    Jim Clark

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,068 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado
  • Interests:Racing and Muzzleloader Hunting
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 27 2013 - 09:31 AM

Not all turns need to be downshited to lower gears David. Also, they might need just one downshift that could be done early, and then LF braked.

I showed that video of the driver using LF and RF braking together.


benzman............Not all the cars had the steering column in the way. The Ferrari didn't. Jim Clark certainly knew about LF braking, because he also drove rally cars, and it was very popular  to LF brake in that era.

I also seem to remember Jim driving a Ford Galaxy that was an automatic, and he was LF braking it. I always did that from when I was a kid too, so LF braking always felt natural to me.

#9 David Wright Lo67

David Wright Lo67

    Denny Hulme

  • GTLW Crew
  • 433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL, GTL and P&G
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Jul 27 2013 - 01:40 PM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Jul 27 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Not all turns need to be downshited to lower gears David. Also, they might need just one downshift that could be done early, and then LF braked.

I showed that video of the driver using LF and RF braking together.

The fact that the Lotus 76 reverted to a three pedal layout when the electro-hydraulic clutch proved a failure indicates that this wasn't seen as an advantage.


View PostPete Gaimari, on Jul 27 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

benzman............Not all the cars had the steering column in the way. The Ferrari didn't. Jim Clark certainly knew about LF braking, because he also drove rally cars, and it was very popular  to LF brake in that era.

I also seem to remember Jim driving a Ford Galaxy that was an automatic, and he was LF braking it. I always did that from when I was a kid too, so LF braking always felt natural to me.

Left foot braking was used on front wheel drive rally cars in this period.  I can find no evidence it was used on rear wheel drive rally cars.  I have a film of the 1968 1000 lake rally.  Timo Makinen is shown left foot braking a Mini but Hannu Mikkola uses right foot braking in an Escort.



Jim rallied a rear wheel drive Cortina.  However, as I've stated, Jim and Colin were aware of left foot braking through racing at Indy.

#10 Pete Gaimari

Pete Gaimari

    Jim Clark

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,068 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado
  • Interests:Racing and Muzzleloader Hunting
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 28 2013 - 09:00 AM

Two drivers is proof that nobody used LF braking, except FW drive cars?

This how RF and LF braking is used together.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Sim Racing Links