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Grand Prix Legends First Times


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#1 John Woods

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Posted Oct 25 2012 - 08:15 AM

When did it happen? Who did it?

Thinking back, iirc, the first time a balloon appeared in Grand Prix Legends was at Madcowie's Sandown track? The first 512 mips I recall were by Paul Jackson with hi-rez asphault pack? (But probably there was something by someone before that). The first rain track was by Magnus T at Mosport.
Wondering what other things others recall where someone pioneered an innovation that others picked up on and enhanced, or by use, made it the standard. Of course if someone did something once that's a first, but for there to truly be a first of many there has to be at least a second.
Also, some things now commonplace among racing simulations were also GPL innovations? Wish I could think of one now, but don't want to risk a guess. Was race sim force feedback a GPL first? What about modding race sims altogether? Don't think there was much before Grand Prix Legends.

Edited by John Woods, Oct 25 2012 - 08:16 AM.


#2 Cheapracer

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Posted Oct 25 2012 - 10:59 AM

Papyrus's Indycar and Nascar had editing going on before GPL and quite large at that.

I still have copies of Indycar, Indycar2 and Nascar(1) on CD.

Sorry, edited, I thought the topic was first time to play GPL, I see it's a GPL innovation thread.

Edited by Cheapracer, Oct 25 2012 - 11:12 AM.


#3 Phil

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Posted Oct 25 2012 - 12:43 PM

Daytona USA Deluxe had force feedback in '97.

Was GPL the first commercial sim to use Pacejka's similarity method tyre model?

#4 John Woods

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Posted Oct 25 2012 - 05:59 PM

Hey Phil, that Assetto Corsa stuff looks cool.

Was Grand Prix Legends first to use Immersion-tech force feedback?

View PostCheapracer, on Oct 25 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Papyrus's Indycar and Nascar had editing going on before GPL and quite large at that.

I still have copies of Indycar, Indycar2 and Nascar(1) on CD.

Sorry, edited, I thought the topic was first time to play GPL, I see it's a GPL innovation thread.

Think some of those are still going on, but none grew like GPL? First at that?

Here's two links that describe Pacejka's Tire Model.

Easy Read

Too much information

Edited by John Woods, Oct 26 2012 - 10:50 AM.


#5 Border Reiver - guest

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Posted Oct 26 2012 - 03:33 AM

Geoff Crammond's Microprose GP and GP2 had editing communities (as did the subsequent titles in that series). Those games certainly predate GPL.

Rob

#6 dangermouse

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Posted Oct 26 2012 - 03:51 AM

First track over the 25km restriction and a 72km landmark for all driving sims = Targa Florio = (Nigel Pattinson made possible)

First track with animation (other than the flagman) =  Clermont-Ferrand  1965 (airship)  = (Guru made possible)

First addon track with sounds = (IIRC) Urbanya = (can't remember who discovered how to do it)



Oldest sim with the most dramatic graphic updates? :P

#7 Cheapracer

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Posted Oct 26 2012 - 10:47 AM

View Postdangermouse, on Oct 26 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

First track over the 25km restriction and a 72km landmark for all driving sims = Targa Florio = (Nigel Pattinson made possible)

Nah, I don't know it's absolute limit but Stunts was certainly over 25km possible and totally editable in 1990 - make a new track in minutes!.

FWIW, first over 25km track in GPL original units but GPL is actually totally scaleable in size, you can make a 50 km track using half scale with half scale cars, half HP, half rpm etc. and it's mostly unperceivable.

There was one Rally stage sim in 2001, "World Rally Championship", that had amazingly long stages but not sure how long they actually were.

Edited by dangermouse, Oct 26 2012 - 11:25 AM.
: stunts program removed - possible Micropose/Microplay copyright infringement


#8 dangermouse

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Posted Oct 26 2012 - 11:46 AM

View PostCheapracer, on Oct 26 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

View Postdangermouse, on Oct 26 2012 - 03:51 AM, said:

First track over the 25km restriction and a 72km landmark for all driving sims = Targa Florio = (Nigel Pattinson made possible)

Nah, I don't know it's absolute limit but Stunts was certainly over 25km possible and totally editable in 1990 - make a new track in minutes!.



As this thread is about GPL firsts I should have said
"First GPL track over the 25km original units restriction and a 72km landmark for all current driving sims at the time of it's release."

but I suppose I'll be wrong there too.


.

#9 DHosein

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Posted Oct 28 2012 - 02:32 PM

First balloon was even earlier. I think this was Bill Tillman's Roebling Road.

#10 John Woods

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Posted Oct 28 2012 - 07:25 PM

Okay, according to ATD, Roebling Road was published in 2001, Sandown in 2002, and Clermont-Ferrand in 2004...of course CF was "in progress" for years.

My fond recollection is, beyond balloons, there was a brief time when hacking GPL was so much fun it was leading the way with state-of-the-art innovations. But maybe that isn't the case, and really things were being adapted and incorporated as the real global wave of race sim innovation flashed by. What the heck really happened? My head's still spinning.

We could say, "GPL was first with fog," but it took awhile to figure out how to use it, but maybe some other sim had it already as well.

Anyway, scale or caveats or not, imo Targa is first published GPL track to bust the "track length restriction," so give Dangermouse a 1 out of 2 please.

#11 dangermouse

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Posted Oct 29 2012 - 04:20 AM

View PostJohn Woods, on Oct 28 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:


We could say, "GPL was first with fog," but it took awhile to figure out how to use it, but maybe some other sim had it already as well.


Unfortunately not. IIRC Colin McRae had fog way before, maybe it was a different rallye sim......

#12 John Woods

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Posted Oct 29 2012 - 08:08 AM

According to typically reliable source, first GPL track with Figure 8 (over-under) Crossover, "Paramount Ranch," (unpublished until yesterday), beta by Brent Adams.
First track made using satelite topo data: Lime Rock Mountain Circuit by Brent Adams. Thinking maybe this was just for sky-horizon accuracy?
First GPL laser scanned track surface: Sears Point. Was that first ever? (Talking bout the first Sears Point track in GPL).

Not fog either? Maybe this thread should have been titled "GPL Seconds, Thirds, Etc."
Uh, or maybe not.

Edited by John Woods, Oct 29 2012 - 08:15 AM.


#13 ACHIM KRAFT

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Posted Oct 29 2012 - 09:04 AM

View Postdangermouse, on Oct 29 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

View PostJohn Woods, on Oct 28 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

We could say, "GPL was first with fog," but it took awhile to figure out how to use it, but maybe some other sim had it already as well.


Unfortunately not. IIRC Colin McRae had fog way before, maybe it was a different rallye sim......

Hi all !

After V2-rasterizer goes public and we have first time the settings for "fog" i test it with my very old 3dfx Voodoo5 5500 and 3dfx driver (GPL in game). It running like hell with fog. so theoretically it is possible to drive GPL since realease date with the integrated fog-function. But nobody know this.


Greetings

Achim

#14 dangermouse

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Posted Oct 29 2012 - 11:10 AM

View PostACHIM KRAFT, on Oct 29 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

View Postdangermouse, on Oct 29 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

View PostJohn Woods, on Oct 28 2012 - 07:25 PM, said:

We could say, "GPL was first with fog," but it took awhile to figure out how to use it, but maybe some other sim had it already as well.


Unfortunately not. IIRC Colin McRae had fog way before, maybe it was a different rallye sim......

Hi all !

After V2-rasterizer goes public and we have first time the settings for "fog" i test it with my very old 3dfx Voodoo5 5500 and 3dfx driver (GPL in game). It running like hell with fog. so theoretically it is possible to drive GPL since realease date with the integrated fog-function. But nobody know this.


Greetings

Achim

Yes,  it was going to be in the release version but never got implemented. It had been seen ages ago but not how to implement it. IIRC rain and changeable weather is in there as well but not implemented either.



#15 benzman

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Posted Oct 29 2012 - 12:24 PM

View PostJohn Woods, on Oct 29 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

According to typically reliable source, first GPL track with Figure 8 (over-under) Crossover, "Paramount Ranch," (unpublished until yesterday), beta by Brent Adams.
Ahvenisto has a crossover and was released April 12, 2007.  There may be older ones but this is the first to come to mind.  This 'first of' subject is trickier than it seems.  Interesting, though.




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