69 replies to this topic

[Adysseus]

Hi everyone
I'm a F1 fan since 1978 and came across GPL a few months ago. My work doesn't leave me with enough time to practice so I couldn't spent much time on theorie research. I got myself a logitech steering wheel and after what seemed like an eternity I got the whole thing up and running. The steering wheel is old and there is no force feedback - does it matter? After a few hours (in more than a month time) of driving I gave it up because it seemed to me that it gonna take way too long to get a hang of it, so I quit again. In the past few weeks there'd been lots of long weekends and I picked the game up again and concentrated on driving Watkins Glen and Monza; tried to do the tracks with all cars. I just love it, but now it looks like I'm stuck. I do Watkins Glen in about 01:08 (record with Lotus is 01:06:90) Monza with the Eagle 01:29:70 (average is around the 1:31). The first few laps where around the mid 1:40s and I thought I'll never get quicker...
I don't have clue about setups and how I could get faster.
So, now my question: is it normal to reach a certain level and not improve? Or is further improvement very slow and dependent on setups? Does the equipment (wheel + pc) matter?
I'd be very thankful for a few helpful hints on driving and setups. How much should one drift? What to do when the back brakes out? How to feel the car when there are no forces on my body. I can't even analyse my own driving style, I just go around and try to be quick.

thanks for any answer on any of my questions

Adi

[FDA]

Adysseus, on Jun 07 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Hi everyone
I'm a F1 fan since 1978 and came across GPL a few months ago. My work doesn't leave me with enough time to practice so I couldn't spent much time on theorie research. I got myself a logitech steering wheel and after what seemed like an eternity I got the whole thing up and running. The steering wheel is old and there is no force feedback - does it matter? After a few hours (in more than a month time) of driving I gave it up because it seemed to me that it gonna take way too long to get a hang of it, so I quit again. In the past few weeks there'd been lots of long weekends and I picked the game up again and concentrated on driving Watkins Glen and Monza; tried to do the tracks with all cars. I just love it, but now it looks like I'm stuck. I do Watkins Glen in about 01:08 (record with Lotus is 01:06:90) Monza with the Eagle 01:29:70 (average is around the 1:31). The first few laps where around the mid 1:40s and I thought I'll never get quicker...
I don't have clue about setups and how I could get faster.
So, now my question: is it normal to reach a certain level and not improve? Or is further improvement very slow and dependent on setups? Does the equipment (wheel + pc) matter?
I'd be very thankful for a few helpful hints on driving and setups. How much should one drift? What to do when the back brakes out? How to feel the car when there are no forces on my body. I can't even analyse my own driving style, I just go around and try to be quick.

thanks for any answer on any of my questions

Adi

Seems to me you're doing pretty well already.  It's normal for progress in lowering times to go by stairsteps.  You drop, then you stay steady, then you drop some more, and so on.  While setups are less of a help/hindrance than beginners often think, it does help to have a good setup.  You might try my setups for the 67s, which can be found in this post.  I created them to be easy to drive and pretty fast.  Another thing that I found handy was to look at some replays of real fast laps at a given track, not so much for the line used, but what gear was used in a given corner.  One of my earlier problems (and I think this is really common) was shifting down too much in corners.  Using Replay Analyser was the easiest way for me to see what gear they used (usually Gregor Huttu's replays, as I'd usually use his gearing in making a setup).

[MECH]

Adysseus, on Jun 07 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

So, now my question: is it normal to reach a certain level and not improve?

Yes, but that's pretty normal
Most people improve in steps.
They hit a certain wall and after some time they are able to improve again.

My advise don't try so hard. Do some races for fun or run a champignonship.
Change car models e.g. don't stick to one chassis but try them all.
Driving the slower cars will make you even quicker in the faster cars
Most of the time trying too hard is doing your laptime more pain then you realize.

You relize that when you think you had a heck of a drive and checked the time and was dissapointed about the time. Next time you don't feel that quick and discover you scraped of an entire second

Adysseus, on Jun 07 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Or is further improvement very slow and dependent on setups?

Setups can make a difference but should match your level of experience.
For beginners the best you can do is try some stable setup (allison hines should  suffice) andstick with those for a while until you are comfortable with them.
Then you can try some alien setups but they might not suite your driving style.

Adysseus, on Jun 07 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Does the equipment (wheel + pc) matter?

make sure the wheel responds properly. If the wheel is worn out it might be you need to clean the pots to get a proper response.
Also check the steering ratio in the setup menu. If you have set it to high (20:1) the steeringwheel won't turn in enough and that will affect your laptime.

As far as your pc concerns: if GPL can provide 36fps throughout the entire race you shouldn't worry about it.

Adysseus, on Jun 07 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'd be very thankful for a few helpful hints on driving and setups. How much should one drift? What to do when the back brakes out? How to feel the car when there are no forces on my body. I can't even analyse my own driving style, I just go around and try to be quick.

You can analyse your driving by comparing replays wit replayanalyzer (gplra)
The program can show you where you loose time compared to replays of others or multiplereplays of yourself

Edited by MECH, Jun 07 2012 - 01:49 PM.
bloody tablet keyboard swipe..

[Bob Simpson]

I'd say that you're expecting way too much.  Your times are pretty good - especially with so little practice.

Can you be more specific on what exactly are you expecting?  The 67 cars are very difficult to drive (400+ hp in an 1100 lb car).  The world records - see http://gplrank.schue...TrackRecords  - are not just difficult to attain, but impossible for all but the very best Sim drivers.

[Saiph]

Adysseus, if you're only concentrating on Watkins' Glen and Monza, (which is a good strategy to begin with), then there will inevitably come a time when your performance hits a plateau. Now that you have "mastered" Monza and the Glen at your current level, it may be time to move on and look at a couple of the other circuits in the '67 season. That way, you're expanding your experience with the cars, and you'll be subconsciously picking up tips on how to drive them in new situations.

My tip would be to try driving a little at Mosport, Canada. Both Monza and the Glen are fairly flat. Driving at Mosport will give you some experience of how the cars handle when going over crests and bottoming out through troughs. You'll find it a whole new ballgame, hopefully you'll find it interesting too, and hopefully you'll pick up more "feel" for the cars. The other track I would recommend is Monaco. That will teach you the size of your car, and how close you can take it to the barriers. You may find it a bit tedious and tricky at first, but once you can lap Monaco consistently without crashing, it feels quite satisfying, believe me. Monaco will also teach you how to combine lots of gearchanges with the correct use of brakes and throttle, a vital skill in GPL.

You've clearly got through the early beginner phase where people can't even leave the pits without spinning (yes, I was like that once when Papyrus first released the Monza demo in 1998!), now it's a question of learning to control the cars in a more subtle way, noticing how they react to your control inputs, and learning how to "ask" the car to do what you want more effectively. That kind of "feel" can only come with practice.

And on the subject of controls, yes you will probably need a force-feedback wheel at some point for you to be able to feel the deeply subtle moves of the cars. But at the moment there are more important and basic things which you should concentrate on learning, so don't worry about force-feedback yet. I've never had the space for any kind of steering wheel, I've been driving GPL with a stubby joystick for years, and although I will never break any world records, I still enjoy driving, and yes I'm still learning.

Good luck!    

[Adysseus]

Thanks for all the quick answers and the encouragement. I guess I'm expecting too much since I used to play games like NFS, Johnny Herbert's F1, F1 2001 ...and after a while could win races and in case of NFS even end the game pretty soon (relative to time available).
GPL is not like a game, it's like driving those engine on wheels for real...
I'll definitely will try a short race right now - no matter where I finish...
thanks again guys

[daynyc]

Adysseus, on Jun 07 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Thanks for all the quick answers and the encouragement. I guess I'm expecting too much since I used to play games like NFS, Johnny Herbert's F1, F1 2001 ...and after a while could win races and in case of NFS even end the game pretty soon (relative to time available).
GPL is not like a game, it's like driving those engine on wheels for real...
I'll definitely will try a short race right now - no matter where I finish...
thanks again guys

I've played GPL since it was first introduced. I've had many enjoyable hours, but I remain a consistently average driver. I agree with all the other replys. Practice is important.  I do believe a good wheel and load cell brake are very helpful and recommend a Logitech 25 or 27 or Fanatec. I would add that I have found the '66 mod much more forgiving than the '67. Have some fun with the '66 and you'll find you'll improve when you go back to work on the '67. Good setups are definitely helpful, but don't concern yourself too much with setups as they are not the key to significant improvement.

[Pete Gaimari]

Just so you know that it's not a requirement to have a FF wheel. I've never used it, and when I tried it I went slower. If I had a wheel that had FF. I turned it off.

I'm not saying you won't be faster with it. You might, but you might not too. So, don't worry about it for now, and just keep practicing.

[rtc552]

Sounds like your doing fine. Just remember smooth is fast, and easier on the equipment.

[JCarvalho]

Sounds like you're doing quite well. Sometimes it also helps to look at your replays and see what you're doing from a different angle or from the rollbar camera. Most improvements come from the driver, not the setup. I also strongly suggest you start racing online as soon as possible. It's probably the single biggest thing you can do to improve your driving, and it's a LOT more fun. You can look here: http://srmz.net/inde...p?showforum=120 or here: http://forums.speedg...hp?showforum=69

Jim

[Alan Davies]

You are doing fine it was/is the difficulty that got most of us hooked in the first place.
I have never understood the whole lap time and rank thing; GPL is about racing, enjoy the racing and forget about lap times they will improve eventually.
Even running mid field there will be someone to race against.
Depending on your settings GPL is designed to match (exceed) your pace and even if you set a lap record one of the AI will break it soon after.
Try a Mod or two; 65, 66 F2, they have a more realistic driving feel especially 66 and F2.
And finally, you are right it is not a game in the arcade sense but a simulation.  Would you really expect to step into one of these beasts and win against full time and experienced professionals, the likes of Stewart, Surtees, Hill and Clark after the small amount of practice you've had.
Welcome to the world of GPL.

[Pete Gaimari]

Alan Davies, on Jun 08 2012 - 01:51 AM, said:

You are doing fine it was/is the difficulty that got most of us hooked in the first place.
I have never understood the whole lap time and rank thing; GPL is about racing, enjoy the racing and forget about lap times they will improve eventually.
Even running mid field there will be someone to race against.
Depending on your settings GPL is designed to match (exceed) your pace and even if you set a lap record one of the AI will break it soon after.
Try a Mod or two; 65, 66 F2, they have a more realistic driving feel especially 66 and F2.
And finally, you are right it is not a game in the arcade sense but a simulation.  Would you really expect to step into one of these beasts and win against full time and experienced professionals, the likes of Stewart, Surtees, Hill and Clark after the small amount of practice you've had.
Welcome to the world of GPL.

I've always felt the same way. I never could get into hot lapping and a good rank. The only reason I even have one is because some leagues required it so they knew how to classify us in the races.

[Slinky]

You could give the 1969 mod a go. I find the cars heaps easier to drive than the 67 cars. Not as sketchy under brakes or accelerating out of corners. Being able to do lap after lap without spinning off track is just great & it gives me a better chance of learning to be more accurate. I had to knock the Ai speed down a bit cos they were too fast for me. Now i have some great races that go full distance insted of me crashing out on lap 3.
Its just time & practice mate,
Slinky.
Outback Racing.

[Pete Gaimari]

There was a time in GPL when there were no mods. We learned to drive the 67 cars, or quit. Most of us learned to drive them. I think they teach you better car control than the mods. Personally, I think they're way more fun, and rewarding to drive too.

My .02

[Dale Cooper]

Hello, I'm new to this boards! I'll probably make you laugh with BAAAD grammar mistakes because I don't speak English frequently, so please forgive me


I discovered GPL in '98 but I lacked a proper analog controller, it was really hard to find a good one in my city and I didn't have an internet connection, so I played a lot of Gran Turismo on Playstation. Now I discovered I can usa an xbox 360 on pc so the dream come true: I can play GPL and other great pc racing games!


Well I have to say this game is awesome, but axtremely difficult and frustrating at times. I'm trying simply to learn how to drive safely on a given track for many laps without crashing/making mistakes. My problem is that I read many articles about racing techniques to be fast in GPL and many times I want to try them, and so I crash...


I'll go into details. I'm using the easier car of the loot, the Cooper. I plan to switch to Ferrari or Lotus when I'll become more confident, but for now they seem to be unforgivable. I've read that using a differential setting that helps the car drifting is essential to get fast laps, and also lerning how to trail brake and drift through the corner is very important, so some drivers suggest to start learning play GPL with a more oversteering differential and braking balance setup.


So I experimented, and I found that this is a good way to fight understeer, so I gradually changed the differential and brake balance setting until I came to this:

ramp angle: 30/85

blocks: 1

braking balance: 55% front (default is 57% front)


I feel this setup helps me to keep the car in the correct trajectory, but of course the handling is much less forgiving. I'm also experimenting with trail breaking and drifting but it is a 180/360 degree spin 99% of the time I try.


So basically I ask if I shoul'd practice with easier setups and a more simple driving style at first, and then switch to advanced stuff. By now, I feel I really like this car setup but probably I shoul'd just try to drive more safely and simply until I feel more comfrotable with car behaviour.