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Matras Look The Same


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#1 gabuck

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Posted Apr 08 2012 - 09:39 AM

The MS5 and MS7 Matras both look identical when I try to run them both also having the same number 35. Should they look differecnt or haven't I got the file set up correctly.

I also notice that on Brabham whilst I want to run Winklemann it always defaults to the Motor Racing Developments team.

Any advice?

Geoff

#2 davef

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Posted Apr 08 2012 - 10:01 AM

View Postgabuck, on Apr 08 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

The MS5 and MS7 Matras both look identical when I try to run them both also having the same number 35. Should they look differecnt or haven't I got the file set up correctly.

I also notice that on Brabham whilst I want to run Winklemann it always defaults to the Motor Racing Developments team.

Any advice?

Geoff
Do you mean when you are driving the 2 different Matra's ? With my install & I drive the MS5 & MS7 I always
get the light blue version of both types,never the dark green version that Ickx & Stewart MS7 Ai cars have. :hat-tip:

#3 gabuck

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Posted Apr 08 2012 - 11:44 AM

View Postdavef, on Apr 08 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

View Postgabuck, on Apr 08 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

The MS5 and MS7 Matras both look identical when I try to run them both also having the same number 35. Should they look differecnt or haven't I got the file set up correctly.

I also notice that on Brabham whilst I want to run Winklemann it always defaults to the Motor Racing Developments team.

Any advice?

Geoff
Do you mean when you are driving the 2 different Matra's ? With my install & I drive the MS5 & MS7 I always
get the light blue version of both types,never the dark green version that Ickx & Stewart MS7 Ai cars have. :hat-tip:


Whether I select the MS5 or the MS7 to play I only seem to get one type of Matra. If I go to the 'carsF2' file and open 'murasama' file it contains 'Player drives green car', 'Type 7' file holders a GEMPIC file, and a murasama.dat file. This is the only carF2 file which seems to  relate to Matras.
It makes me think I've not done something which creates the two alternatives Types.
Geoff

#4 gabuck

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Posted Apr 08 2012 - 11:57 AM

View Postgabuck, on Apr 08 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

View Postdavef, on Apr 08 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

View Postgabuck, on Apr 08 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

The MS5 and MS7 Matras both look identical when I try to run them both also having the same number 35. Should they look differecnt or haven't I got the file set up correctly.

I also notice that on Brabham whilst I want to run Winklemann it always defaults to the Motor Racing Developments team.

Any advice?

Geoff
Do you mean when you are driving the 2 different Matra's ? With my install & I drive the MS5 & MS7 I always
get the light blue version of both types,never the dark green version that Ickx & Stewart MS7 Ai cars have. :hat-tip:


Whether I select the MS5 or the MS7 to play I only seem to get one type of Matra. If I go to the 'carsF2' file and open 'murasama' file it contains 'Player drives green car', 'Type 7' file holders a GEMPIC file, and a murasama.dat file. This is the only carF2 file which seems to  relate to Matras.
It makes me think I've not done something which creates the two alternatives Types.
Geoff

I've just done a really close check and the two Matras are very slightly different in terms of some panel lines in front of the screen and do have different cockpits so maybe it's just that the skins aren't as noticably different as the pictures suggest !!!?

But I'm still unsure as to why I can't seem to drive the green car or to that matter the Winklemann Brabham.

Geoff

#5 Saiph

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Posted Apr 08 2012 - 12:28 PM

I'm not an expert on the '67 F2 mod, but I think I can help clear some things up.

Under the "CarsF2" directory, the "Murasama" directory contains the files for the Matra MS5, the "C11" directory contains the files for the Matra MS7. If you check the Gempic.jpg in each directory, you should see that it corresponds to the correct car type when you select it in GEM.

If there are subfolders under a car directory, then they represent optional files which a GPL player can use if they wish. For example, under the "Murasama" directory, there's a directory called "Player drives green car". To use these files, you need to manually copy all the files in the subdirectory up one level into the main car directory, for example copy "mur35.3do" into the "Murasama" directory. If you wish to switch back to the original car, just delete the .3do file.

Gabuck, how are you trying to run the two Matra cars? If I'm hotlapping (testing mode), I can pick my track and car with no problem, and I get either the MS5 or the MS7 as selected. I'm not sure what happens if you're in race mode, as I've never tried it. It may be that only one type of Matra entered a particular race in real life, and so the other type may not be available if the grid is restricted to "historically correct" cars.

If you can't select your preferred car when using "testing" mode in GEM, then perhaps something has gone wrong with your installation.

EDIT: I've just tried out the F2 mod to check things, and I agree that the MS5 and MS7 do look very similar externally. But the two cockpits are quite different, and this should be enough to confirm that you're driving your selected car. And I also confirmed that the "Tyrell car" and "Green car" files work if you copy them into the main directory, so you can drive the green cars if you wish. Hope that helps!

Edited by Saiph, Apr 08 2012 - 01:07 PM.


#6 gabuck

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Posted Apr 08 2012 - 01:13 PM

View PostSaiph, on Apr 08 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

I'm not an expert on the '67 F2 mod, but I think I can help clear some things up.

Under the "CarsF2" directory, the "Murasama" directory contains the files for the Matra MS5, the "C11" directory contains the files for the Matra MS7. If you check the Gempic.jpg in each directory, you should see that it corresponds to the correct car type when you select it in GEM.

If there are subfolders under a car directory, then they represent optional files which a GPL player can use if they wish. For example, under the "Murasama" directory, there's a directory called "Player drives green car". To use these files, you need to manually copy all the files in the subdirectory up one level into the main car directory, for example copy "mur35.3do" into the "Murasama" directory. If you wish to switch back to the original car, just delete the .3do file.

Gabuck, how are you trying to run the two Matra cars? If I'm hotlapping (testing mode), I can pick my track and car with no problem, and I get either the MS5 or the MS7 as selected. I'm not sure what happens if you're in race mode, as I've never tried it. It may be that only one type of Matra entered a particular race in real life, and so the other type may not be available if the grid is restricted to "historically correct" cars.

If you can't select your preferred car when using "testing" mode in GEM, then perhaps something has gone wrong with your installation.

EDIT: I've just tried out the F2 mod to check things, and I agree that the MS5 and MS7 do look very similar externally. But the two cockpits are quite different, and this should be enough to confirm that you're driving your selected car. And I also confirmed that the "Tyrell car" and "Green car" files work if you copy them into the main directory, so you can drive the green cars if you wish. Hope that helps!

Thanks for this advice - I was never quite sure how to handle to alternative files. I don't race online 'cos I'm cr*p but I always enjoy 'testing' mode to improve my driving and to understand how the alternative elements of setup influence driveability and my best times.

geoff

#7 Saiph

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Posted Apr 08 2012 - 01:34 PM

View Postgabuck, on Apr 08 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Thanks for this advice - I was never quite sure how to handle to alternative files. I don't race online 'cos I'm cr*p but I always enjoy 'testing' mode to improve my driving and to understand how the alternative elements of setup influence driveability and my best times.

geoff
Always glad to help a fellow hotlapper geoff! BTW, if you read the "read me 67f2.txt" that comes with the mod, you'll see that the version which has been released is only a "part one" of two. The guys wanted to get the mod out to the community to let us play with it, but there are quite a few graphical and cosmetic updates that they are working on. Maybe this might include Jochen Rindt's Winkelmann Brabham, but I'm not sure. I think perhaps the reason he doesn't appear in the mod is that he wasn't eligible to score points in the championship in 1967. Seems a shame when he was winning so many of the races!

Edited by Saiph, Apr 08 2012 - 01:34 PM.


#8 davef

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Posted Apr 08 2012 - 01:39 PM

Thanks Saiph ! :thumbup:  :hat-tip:

#9 Border Reiver - guest

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Posted Apr 08 2012 - 03:34 PM

View PostSaiph, on Apr 08 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

View Postgabuck, on Apr 08 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Thanks for this advice - I was never quite sure how to handle to alternative files. I don't race online 'cos I'm cr*p but I always enjoy 'testing' mode to improve my driving and to understand how the alternative elements of setup influence driveability and my best times.

geoff
Always glad to help a fellow hotlapper geoff! BTW, if you read the "read me 67f2.txt" that comes with the mod, you'll see that the version which has been released is only a "part one" of two. The guys wanted to get the mod out to the community to let us play with it, but there are quite a few graphical and cosmetic updates that they are working on. Maybe this might include Jochen Rindt's Winkelmann Brabham, but I'm not sure. I think perhaps the reason he doesn't appear in the mod is that he wasn't eligible to score points in the championship in 1967. Seems a shame when he was winning so many of the races!

?? Rindt is in there already in the #8 Winkelmann Brabham.

Rob

#10 Saiph

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Posted Apr 09 2012 - 07:21 PM

View PostBorder Reiver, on Apr 08 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

?? Rindt is in there already in the #8 Winkelmann Brabham.

Rob
Doh!  :duh:  I missed him completely, perhaps because he's listed under the Motor Racing Developments team. Sorry!

#11 Border Reiver - guest

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Posted Apr 10 2012 - 03:10 AM

Yes, it is unfortunate that you cannot have two teams with the same car type, but different entrants. You get the same with the Matras, in that we chose to enter the MS7 as Tyrrell and the MS5 as Matra Sport, but in fact both entrants entered both chassis at various points. The only way around this for these teams would be to have two separate BT23 teams with identical physics, two teams for the MS5 and two for the MS7, so that the entrants were individually named. Doing that is a lot more work churning out identical skins with new numbers for online in particular, and it would mean that online there would be less variety when you select a BT23, since one team would be all green and gold and the other all black and grey. Same deal for the Matras; currently online there is some variety between the blue and green skins depending on the number that the server gives you, whereas splitting into separate teams would make one slot all blue and another all green.  Presumably for those who like to drive all cars at all tracks this would also be somewhat pointless since you'd have to drive two cars per "physics slot" that have completely identical physics and only differ in their car entrant name. Maybe you'd view it as extra fun to have three more cars to drive to complete your ranks, but it is not like there would be any real new content, you'd just be driving the same physics under a different name and with a different coloured car body.

In general the policy has been to choose either the most prolific or most successful entrant for each chassis or where a manufacturer/factory was an entrant to use that, as in the case of Brabham, McLaren etc. in the F2 mod, even though other entrants also entered those same cars. Where multiple teams used the same chassis, some as works and others as customers this is more difficult to choose though. Since there are two F2 Matras in the mod, it makes sense to give one to each entrant for example, especially as Tyrrell drivers had more success in the MS7. For some mods, where there is a clear difference between the machinery that the works had and that which was sold to customers, there might be physics differences and these are then split into works and customer versions in separate slots and with different physics. When there is only one car type, we can only choose one name to use as the team entrant name for the menus etc., but we do try to include the other entrants as alternative skins for that chassis within the AI line up and then also randomly distributed in about the same proportion within the online skins. Where available, we also tend to make alternative player numbered skins available for offline, where the player number is fixed and so the user can choose the car skin they want from the options available, e.g. player can select to drive the Winkelmann BT23 by moving the files in the sub folder into the main car folder where the dat file is.

Rob

Edited by Border Reiver, Apr 10 2012 - 03:21 AM.




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