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Monaco 1967 Chicane In Gpl : Rather Monacane Than Monaco.


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#256 gliebzeit

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Posted Sep 28 2016 - 10:44 AM

... sorta like the US Presidential race. ;)

#257 leon_90

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Posted Sep 28 2016 - 10:46 AM

View Postgliebzeit, on Sep 28 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

... sorta like the US Presidential race. ;)

:D :D exactly

#258 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 28 2016 - 11:38 AM

I know they didn't go flat out in 5th gear through the chicane. So, I guess Monacane is more realistic.

#259 leon_90

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Posted Sep 28 2016 - 12:40 PM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Sep 28 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

I know they didn't go flat out in 5th gear through the chicane. So, I guess Monacane is more realistic.

To me it's not because with Papy Monaco you go too fast and with Monacane too slow. It is wrong the same just in opposite directions. Neither of them is more realistic than the other. Which one you choose is up to you no prob :) I prefer Papy because the Ai is less funky

Edited by leon_90, Sep 28 2016 - 12:43 PM.


#260 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 28 2016 - 01:37 PM

I'm not bothered by being slower than Jim Clark. I'm really bothered by being faster. Sim or real life.

From my observation, they braked and shifted down in real life for the chicane. That's much closer than going flat out. If someone doesn't use Monacane they're more interested in just going fast at all cost. That's not what GPL is all about. It's supposed to be a simulation.

Monacane is part of the Historic V2 mod. I know they put a lot of thought into track choice. So, I rac e it just the way it came. The proper carset for each track, and Monacane, Mosport Rain, Bugatti and Spa67. Plus, all the non points tracks too. It's a great mod and something I asked for for a decade. I won't make it easier.

Of course everybody is free to do as they please. Just make sure you don't get picky about anything not being historic/realistic and then not run the V2 mod as is.

#261 leon_90

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Posted Sep 28 2016 - 02:07 PM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Sep 28 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

From my observation, they braked and shifted down in real life for the chicane. That's much closer than going flat out.

Pete this discussion led me to dig up some bibliography. This is what Bandini said in 1967 about the approach he used to take in the 312 for the chicane:

"Si inserisce la quinta marcia prima del tunnel. Si arriva alla chicane in quinta. Si scala in terza e si entra nella chicane a circa 130 km/h, 9800 giri motore. Si re-inserisce la quarta uscendo dalla chicane." (BANDINI “NATO PER CORRERE” by Pier Attilio Trivulzio)

Translated "the 5th gear gets engaged before the tunnel. You get to the chicane in 5th. Then you downshift to 3rd and you enter the chicane at about 130 km/h (81 mph), 9800 rpm. Then you re-engage the 4th gear exiting the chicane."

In Monacane you can never approach the chicane in 5th (I believe Bandini meant that you downshift when you get to the downhill section) but you have to slow down well before that, no more than a hundred meters after the tunnel exit, much before the start of the downhill leading to the chicane. The part about the 3rd gear in Monacane is right. But you go slow, enough not to swiftly engage the 4th (you are well down 9800 rpm in the 312) at corner exit. So there's 2 mistakes out of 3 in the track's chicane.
But you could say that Papy's has 3 out of 3, so yeah Monacane is just slightly more realistic :D

Edited by leon_90, Sep 28 2016 - 02:57 PM.


#262 John Woods

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Posted Sep 28 2016 - 04:39 PM

View Postone2fwee, on Sep 27 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

View PostJohn Woods, on Sep 25 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

Notice it shows a different (earlier) configuration for the chicane.
2nd pic included for comparison.

Interesting over time they moved the barriers to make chicane tighter and more difficult.

Er don't you mean the opposite - that they eased the chicane over time by moving the second barrier further away.
Look at the distance between the black line and the second barrier - clearly further in the 60s pic.

View Postginetto, on Sep 28 2016 - 03:56 AM, said:

It looks like that to me too :rolleyes:

Yes I agree the opening is bigger but in later pic the sandbags/bales are closer to the line from the sidewalk to the barrier, only a foot or so it seems, (the barrier is moved closer to the water?

Was thinking current version follows that evolution.

So the racing line is not as straight?
But maybe not because the opening is widened.

Edit:
Okay, I give up with v4, an attempt to make a sort of composite that makes it appear to me the racing line did not change much at all and maybe did get straighter...and faster?

Attached Files


Edited by John Woods, Sep 28 2016 - 06:03 PM.


#263 Bob Simpson

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Posted Sep 28 2016 - 05:50 PM

View Postleon_90, on Sep 28 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

Pete this discussion led me to dig up some bibliography. This is what Bandini said in 1967 about the approach he used to take in the 312 for the chicane:

"Si inserisce la quinta marcia prima del tunnel. Si arriva alla chicane in quinta. Si scala in terza e si entra nella chicane a circa 130 km/h, 9800 giri motore. Si re-inserisce la quarta uscendo dalla chicane." (BANDINI “NATO PER CORRERE” by Pier Attilio Trivulzio)

Translated "the 5th gear gets engaged before the tunnel. You get to the chicane in 5th. Then you downshift to 3rd and you enter the chicane at about 130 km/h (81 mph), 9800 rpm. Then you re-engage the 4th gear exiting the chicane."


Are you certain that this refers to 1967?  Bandini raced at Monaco from 1962 through 1967.

Also let's be realistic about the chances that drivers might have taken in 1967.  I crash and die about 50% of the time if I take the chicane at almost full throttle in top gear.

Edited by Bob Simpson, Sep 28 2016 - 05:55 PM.


#264 Pavel

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Posted Sep 29 2016 - 01:04 AM

View Postleon_90, on Sep 28 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

View PostPete Gaimari, on Sep 28 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

From my observation, they braked and shifted down in real life for the chicane. That's much closer than going flat out.

Pete this discussion led me to dig up some bibliography. This is what Bandini said in 1967 about the approach he used to take in the 312 for the chicane:

"Si inserisce la quinta marcia prima del tunnel. Si arriva alla chicane in quinta. Si scala in terza e si entra nella chicane a circa 130 km/h, 9800 giri motore. Si re-inserisce la quarta uscendo dalla chicane." (BANDINI “NATO PER CORRERE” by Pier Attilio Trivulzio)

Translated "the 5th gear gets engaged before the tunnel. You get to the chicane in 5th. Then you downshift to 3rd and you enter the chicane at about 130 km/h (81 mph), 9800 rpm. Then you re-engage the 4th gear exiting the chicane."

In Monacane you can never approach the chicane in 5th (I believe Bandini meant that you downshift when you get to the downhill section) but you have to slow down well before that, no more than a hundred meters after the tunnel exit, much before the start of the downhill leading to the chicane. The part about the 3rd gear in Monacane is right. But you go slow, enough not to swiftly engage the 4th (you are well down 9800 rpm in the 312) at corner exit. So there's 2 mistakes out of 3 in the track's chicane.
But you could say that Papy's has 3 out of 3, so yeah Monacane is just slightly more realistic :D

Hmm... I use 3rd gear going through chicane and I slow down exact to 130 km/h. I remember that value because it was target speed for my AI file to go through chicane. It's with original 1967 cars.

Monaco in GPL has crest on braking zone before chicane. It disturb the car. In real life this part was smoother, I think. So cars were more stable there and drivers were consistent with corner entry.

#265 leon_90

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Posted Sep 29 2016 - 01:38 AM

View PostBob Simpson, on Sep 28 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:


Are you certain that this refers to 1967?  Bandini raced at Monaco from 1962 through 1967.

Yes I do Bob, it is specified that he said so to the book's author during the 1967 Monaco weekend.

View PostPavel, on Sep 29 2016 - 01:04 AM, said:


Hmm... I use 3rd gear going through chicane and I slow down exact to 130 km/h. I remember that value because it was target speed for my AI file to go through chicane. It's with original 1967 cars.

Monaco in GPL has crest on braking zone before chicane. It disturb the car. In real life this part was smoother, I think. So cars were more stable there and drivers were consistent with corner entry.

Very interesting about the reference speed being about 130 km/h. About the crest, I don't know, though I got the feeling too that it might be a bit too dramatic in GPL compared to real life but I have no clue whether it is actually so or no.

#266 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 29 2016 - 07:12 AM

Leon.............It's possible that they geared their cars lower than we do. Keep in mind we take the chicane flat out in 5th gear for the Papy track. So, we gear the cars higher. I usually shift to 5th right before the crest of the downhill. If they brake and shift down to 3rd for the chicane the only other pace to get in 5th could be the front straight. I only get to 4th there, but i'm geared for the Papy chicane. I suppose we could gear our cars lower overall for Monacane. Then we might get into 5th too before the chicane and gear down to 3rd.

Make sense?

#267 leon_90

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Posted Sep 29 2016 - 10:12 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Sep 29 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:


Make sense?

Yes it does ;)

#268 gliebzeit

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Posted Sep 29 2016 - 12:01 PM

Enjoying driving Monaco/Monacane right now...... :drive:

#269 John Woods

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Posted Jan 01 2018 - 02:46 PM

No idea if this link has been posted before:
Interesting compilation tho.

Monaco Chicane Evolution

#270 Pavel

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Posted Jan 01 2018 - 04:02 PM

Thanks for the link, John. I haven't seen this compilation.

Edited by Pavel, Jan 01 2018 - 04:02 PM.





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