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Monaco 1967 Chicane In Gpl : Rather Monacane Than Monaco.


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#16 Pavel

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 02:24 PM

I don't think they only eased off a bit before chicane. I read many times about overtakes in Monaco chicane. How it was possible to make a pass at this place if drivers didn't use brakes there? I can belive they didn't use brakes in 1965, but part of '67 grid with 3 lt cars have to brake there.

Edited by Pavel, Mar 09 2012 - 02:25 PM.


#17 Rudy Dingemans

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 02:39 PM

Don't forget that Mark's Monacane was only a quick hack, really. It's better (closer to reality) than original GPL but not quite the accurate depiction of Monaco's real chicane, of course. Main thing is it makes it impossible to straightline the chicane full-throttle any more, since IRL they never did that either (and if they did, most of them would've been dead).

With a bit of study it should be fairly easy to have a (Monaco Rocks?) trackmaker produce a better version, I guess. But then also those crazy mid-chicane bumps in the GPL track need to be taken out.

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Edited by Rudy Dingemans, Mar 09 2012 - 02:40 PM.


#18 M Needforspeed

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 03:05 PM

View PostPavel, on Mar 09 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

I don't think they only eased off a bit before chicane. I read many times about overtakes in Monaco chicane. How it was possible to make a pass at this place if drivers didn't use brakes there? I can belive they didn't use brakes in 1965, but part of '67 grid with 3 lt cars have to brake there.

   Maybe, but the thing is looking at the monaco 67 movie, we see cars cutting the apex and going out quite fast from the chicane. In  the first part of the races, with two drivers in front, one of them surely had to brake to avoid collision .But a car alone on its natural racing line ??

   take into account being quite at full throttle doesn 't mean being at the maximum speed (evident they weren 't ), but rather under acceleration again.They used downshifting and got some engine brake

Edited by M Needforspeed, Mar 09 2012 - 03:30 PM.


#19 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 03:06 PM

67 pole was 1.27.6 by Jack, and fast lap by Jimmy was 1.29.5 sure doesn't indicate the chicane was taken fast. We gain way too much time by being able to go full throttle.

Edited by Pete Gaimari, Mar 09 2012 - 03:06 PM.


#20 davef

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 03:18 PM

View PostM Needforspeed, on Mar 09 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

View PostPavel, on Mar 09 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

I don't think they only eased off a bit before chicane. I read many times about overtakes in Monaco chicane. How it was possible to make a pass at this place if drivers didn't use brakes there? I can belive they didn't use brakes in 1965, but part of '67 grid with 3 lt cars have to brake there.

   Maybe, but the thing is looking at the monaco 67 movie, we see cars cutting the apex and going out quite fast from the chicane. In  the first part of the races, with two drivers in front, one of them surely had to brake to avoid collision .But a car alone on its natural racing line ??

   take into account being quite at full throttle doesn 't mean being at the maximum speed (evident they weren 't ), but rather under acceleration again
where can one see the Monaco67 movie you have been talking about? :hat-tip:

#21 JohnnyAck

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 03:24 PM

I agree with a better monaco chicane over the stock one. If I get a good run out of the tunnel,I go thru the stock chicane at 147-151 mph, and that's just silly.

#22 M Needforspeed

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 03:26 PM

View Postdavef, on Mar 09 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

where can one see the Monaco67 movie you have been talking about? :hat-tip:
  

  


  This is only a short extract of a longer movie I must find on another HDD .We see Bandini car and others coming out from the chicane in the laps before his crash.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Mar 09 2012 - 03:38 PM.


#23 M Needforspeed

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 03:27 PM

View PostJohnnyAck, on Mar 09 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

I agree with a better monaco chicane over the stock one. If I get a good run out of the tunnel,I go thru the stock chicane at 147-151 mph, and that's just silly.

And in Monacane, what is your speed ??

#24 M Needforspeed

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 03:35 PM

reposted with a line where the cars by looking at upper wishbones are under braking, just before accelerating again, to get the max speed  at the entrance of Tabac corner

#25 Pavel

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 03:41 PM

This video has better quality


How you can run through this 'gate' without braking? Don't forget car was rolling down after the Tunnel. So it was possible to slow down it only with brakes.

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#26 M Needforspeed

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 03:49 PM

Different view from the usual shots seen from the back, this one from the 1967 Ferrari Annuario. The driver has room to accelerate again before he  crosses the left apex.

#27 Pavel

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 03:56 PM

View PostM Needforspeed, on Mar 09 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

reposted with a line where the cars by looking at upper wishbones are under braking, just before accelerating again, to get the max speed  at the entrance of Tabac corner
It seems like Bandini had good line entering the chicane and he didn't brake too hard. Hulme missed left apex and has to brake hard. Stewart also has to brake hard. Surtees like Bandini had good line too. But Gurney behind has to brake hard. And he was still far from chicane. So Surtees maybe slowed too.

Edited by Pavel, Mar 09 2012 - 03:58 PM.


#28 M Needforspeed

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 04:02 PM

View PostPavel, on Mar 09 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

View PostM Needforspeed, on Mar 09 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

reposted with a line where the cars by looking at upper wishbones are under braking, just before accelerating again, to get the max speed  at the entrance of Tabac corner
It seems like Bandini had good line entering the chicane and he didn't brake too hard. Hulme missed left apex and has to brake hard. Stewart also has to brake hard. Surtees like Bandini had good line too. But Gurney behind has to brake hard. And he was still far from chicane. So Surtees maybe slowed too.

after snd thinking, in my opinion you are right Pavel .Taking account of the speed they got well after the tunnel, there must have been a braking zone, but well before the chicane, probably where I draw the black line

another perspective of the racing line of a car alone, here

it depended a lot on a tiny perfect racing line .If the driver got it, he could accelerate again before crossing the two apexes, as he cld see how to place the car on the straigth line following.

Attached Files


Edited by M Needforspeed, Mar 09 2012 - 04:18 PM.


#29 Pavel

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 04:14 PM

If GPL car physics in 66 mod is right then braking over crest can destabilized the car easely. In addition road was curved there. So depending on car weight and carring speed braking zones varied too much from car to car, I think.

And yes, driver have to pointed car right there. Cause line through chicane was narrow. But I think they started accelerate after first apex.

Edited by Pavel, Mar 09 2012 - 04:19 PM.


#30 davef

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Posted Mar 09 2012 - 04:53 PM

On board lap from "Grand Prix" movie showing it in 1966 is a good thing to watch
also :thumbup:  
it's on youtube-maybe someone can post it as I am not sure how :duh:

Edited by davef, Mar 09 2012 - 05:07 PM.





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