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Why Do So Many Still Use 36Fps?


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#16 ginetto

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Posted Feb 24 2012 - 12:57 PM

60Hz patch is very easily applied or not every time you enter GPL via GEM+; you just need to toggle the 60fps patch.
Anyway I don't use it since the AI got messed up and I, as most of the guys that keep using the original 36 fps, mostly race against AI :)

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#17 Dave63

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Posted Feb 24 2012 - 03:14 PM

As has been pointed out. AI.

#18 Burnsy865

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Posted Feb 24 2012 - 04:33 PM

Same here, because of the Ai and to be honest, I recently upgraded my system and can run 36fps in a much higher resolution than before so it looks much better anyway. I used to hotlap with 60fps and admit it looks great but got bored and needed to chase the Ai around.
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#19 dbell84

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Posted Feb 24 2012 - 05:08 PM

I'm an offline player and I use both.  I tend to hotlap more than race lately and I use 60fps when I do.  I'll switch back to 36fps if I want to race the AI.  The thing is, I have to decide which I'm going to do before hand.  If I hotlap at 60fps and then try to go directly back to 36fps, it will give me a headache.

  Dave

#20 Art-J

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Posted Feb 24 2012 - 05:44 PM

Comparing TV or cinema with computer is a bit "apples and oranges" issue, because of different mechanisms of displaying the image: double or triple frame blending (motion blur) in TV/cinema versus complete frame-by-frame display on computer screen. So "30fps" there is something different to "30fps" here. Think about it, if the sentence "human eye works up to 24-30fps" is that simple, why don't we use 30 fps refresh rate in our monitors and TVs then? ;)

I presume the subjective image appearance might be strongly dependant on monitor type. I'm one of those stoneage geezers who still runs games on big, old, heavy CRT. As I can see it, in GPL, the difference between 36 and 60 fps is night-and-day. Back in days when I got used to high frame rates in  P&G or some rFactor mods and then switched back to vanilla GPL, after 20 minutes of hotlapping my eyes were screaming for mercy. There's no going back to 36 for me, at least not when I still use my ancient monitor. Sure, that means problems with AI, but at least I can play GPL at all (for prolonged periods of time). I'm curious however about this difference as seen on modern flat screens, which again work somewhat different than oldschool CRTs. From comments of more civilized fellows (who use a bit more up-to-date equipment) I understand that it doesn't seem to be THAT noticeable? In that case, properly working AI might be a crucial factor indeed.

Cheers - Art

#21 jgf

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Posted Feb 24 2012 - 06:00 PM

View PostArt-J, on Feb 24 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

Comparing TV or cinema with computer is a bit "apples and oranges" issue, because of different mechanisms of displaying the image: double or triple frame blending (motion blur) in TV/cinema versus complete frame-by-frame display on computer screen. So "30fps" there is something different to "30fps" here. Think about it, if the sentence "human eye works up to 24-30fps" is that simple, why don't we use 30 fps refresh rate in our monitors and TVs then? ;)...


The converse of that being, if 60fps looks so much better why doesn't the new generation of high-def (am I the only one tired of that phrase?) TVs use that?  The mandated change to digital broadcast a few years ago could have easily included 60Hz, or even 120Hz, scan rates, and the hardware technology can easily support it.  It's not that the "human eye works up to 24-30fps", it's that anything above that is superfluous.

#22 Jhalli

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Posted Feb 24 2012 - 06:36 PM

i ve been using 60fps since day back when its released without problems,  in several leagues.

looks like community is splitted to AI users and those who not use AI's .

yeah its a shame it doesnt work with AI's , but idont care because online racing is so much funnier   :lol:

Edited by Jhalli, Feb 24 2012 - 06:37 PM.


#23 robwmack

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Posted Feb 24 2012 - 06:55 PM

If the 60 fps had clear advantages and worked without issues I would use it but I've heard it brings issues and limitations with it so I haven't tried it. I'm afraid of messing up what is at present a pretty good setup.

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#24 Jim Pearson

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Posted Feb 24 2012 - 08:14 PM

My 2 bob's worth.

About the time the 60fps patch was being developed I changed systems from win XP, standard monitor, single core CPU, to Win 7 64 bit 23" widescreen monitor, Corei7 920, GTX 275 vid card.

Before that change 36 fps looked smooth to me, afterwards, it looked choppy and had a distinct "slide show" effect, especially at the extreme left and right of the monitor and especially at any track with lots of very close to track objects.

The trackmaking I do these days has lots of these, so I guess I notice that effect more than some.

The native refresh rate and resolution of my monitor is 60fps/1920 X 1200. The monitor seems to produce very smooth visuals so long as I use this resolution in any games and if I can get those games to run at 60fps.

So, I think that the equipment you have has a lot to do with how smooth either system [36 or 60] fps looks.

For me, IOM Full looks far better/smoother at 60FPS and so I have made it so it will run pretty much constantly at that frame rate with not too many cars in sight on a system like mine.

In the past, I have been against some changes to GPL that seem to me to depart from authenticity, or would compromise work that has been released, but I dont see the 60 Fps patches that way. I see them as one of the best advances to keep GPL playable, and even more enjoyable as PC's become more powerfull.

I would only add my voice to those who encourage more work, to find a possible solution to the poor AI performace resulting from these patches, because it has been evident to me for many years, that there are a vast number of people who derive great pleasure from tuning and racing against viable AI in GPL.

Edited by Jim Pearson, Feb 24 2012 - 08:33 PM.


#25 isamu

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Posted Feb 25 2012 - 01:40 AM

View PostKanzo, on Feb 24 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

Heresy! GPL is meant to be played on 36 fps because it was made that way! Why change something if it´s not broken?! Anyway, our eyes cannot see the difference anyway (36 fps is a LOT more than in movies!) AND it´s breaking our community. All you 60 fps hooligans, get back to where you belong! Is this stupid patch authorized by Kaemmer anyway??? :frown:
:whistling:
:muttley:

You sir, are a troll. Get back in your hole  :angry:

Anyway I don't understand all the complaints about the using the 60fps patch against the AI. I race exclusively the F2 Mod, and 95% of the time do not have a problem with AI. What you guys are probably failing to do, is adjusting their parameters in GEM. I usually set them to about 0.93 and they are VERY competitive on quite a few tracks! The *ONLY* flaw in their behavior that I can see, is that they can be a bit slow on long straights. But C'mon....how many tracks in GPL have long straights that last forever? Most tracks have more corners and turns that they do straights, so the AI STILL put up a good fight.

Seriously guys, try putting the AI at 0.90 in GEM using the 60FPS patch, and I bet you won't call them slow! They exhibit no abnormal behavior whatsoever so calling them "broken" is simply not fair. I honestly would never EVER play GPL if I couldn't use the 60fps patch. Screw that. It's a slideshow at 36fps and the original 36fps framerate is the SOLE reason why I procrastinated playing this sim for so long.

God bless Brr!!!!!!!!!!!!  :thumbup:

#26 Kanzo

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Posted Feb 25 2012 - 02:07 AM

I guess it´s a thin line between irony and trolling - apologies if I confused you guys.  :P

Anyway, I´ve been using 60fps from the beginning, and I´m not going back to 36 fps. Ever. Our Trellet league has been using it without problems for many seasons now. Brr is one of my league mates (but he´s too fast for me  :hmm:). I would love to have the chance to drive in a second GPL league some day but I´m genuinely surprised and frustrated each time I read an announcement about a new league season still using 36 fps. Which is totally unplayable for me after using 60 fps for so long.

I´ve been playing GPL since 2001. I would have stopped long ago without Brr´s patches.  :bowing:

#27 s2173

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Posted Feb 25 2012 - 02:34 AM

First, I don't race AI, so thats not the reason I dont like 60fps... But there are other reasons.

First, sometimes Gem doesnt switch it propetly, resulting in a damaged exe; happens to me and to some others. So, to use it now, I have to keep a folder with propetly patched exes; to change the exe of a mod when I want to use it; to switch it back before using gem; keeping track of v1 and v2's, of mods, where it is patched with what and where its not with that... really too much for me to handle.

Second, with my laptop its hard to keep it constant 60fps, often it is 40; and suprisingly, 40 fps loks as bad as 16 fps in the 36fps GPL.

Third, when i get it to run propetly at full speed, I cant find absolutely no difference in visuals, only in controls.

Fourth, the controls might be more responsive, theres really is difference. But that is bad thing for me; being used to certain responses to certain movements and doing them automaticly, I find some of the more sensitive cars practicly undriveable with 60fps. Especialy true for 67's, the cars I drive most. I suspect that I might need different setups and driving style for 60 fps, one more thing to keep track of...

Fifth, the online races I have run with 60fps run have exacly the same wrap problems as 36 fps. Also, it seems that the more demanding tracks (like the latest ones) actually cause much more wrap and clock smashes for everyone in 60fps.

Sixth, and the reason I really hate 60fps patch instead of not caring - separation btw GPL drivers. No good...
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#28 Andy Clegg

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Posted Feb 25 2012 - 02:46 AM

The last time I tried 65's on 60fps, I couldn't load mod. I've just tried loading Thunder car mod, I was on Direct3DV2 and Open GL appeared in rasteriser box and looks like mod loaded successfully. I'll try in Open GL if things don't work in 3D. I'm concentrating more on GPL Rank, will the times be accepted in 60fps.

Edited by Andy Clegg, Feb 25 2012 - 02:47 AM.


#29 Andy Clegg

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Posted Feb 25 2012 - 05:21 AM

Just tried with 60fps, because of my illness, that's made me very dizzy. I'll stick to 36fps at the moment.

Edited by Andy Clegg, Feb 25 2012 - 05:22 AM.


#30 Yngwie

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Posted Feb 25 2012 - 06:12 AM

First of all: thank you all for participating here, I wouldn't have thought there'll be so much feedback. :)

But there's something coming up here I'd like to state my point of view to. Some seem to think the GPL community is splitted by the 60fps patch. It is not! If you think like this, you could say it is splitted by the large variety of mods also! But_it_just_isn't! It's an option which anyone chooses or not for some reason and I don't think they would go for other leagues/mods/frames just like that.

Let's face it: the pool of GPL drivers hasn't the problem to be splitted up it's generally shrinking. It's a miracle there are so many left after all these years, have a look at other sims/online games.

And I'm pretty sure, without the option to choose there would be only very sad remains right now.

To speak for myself: I'm racing online, 67s only, 60fps only. But I dont see any reson to fight anyone who chose to drive GPL in the constellation he prefers!




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