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Grand Prix Legend Sounds


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#81 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 03 2013 - 01:47 PM

Hi again Wolfgang,

I don't know if you have seen this video of the honda ra300 it is very good quality in terms of the sound recording and could perhaps be of interest. There is a similar video from the same event but not of such good sound quality and the doppler effect is more prominent in the recording.

The current honda ra300 sound is very good and you can certainly hear that it is from the actual car but similarly to the lotus 49 and just listening closely, it seems to lack a little of the deeper bass notes to the overall sound which is a shame as the honda has that sweet high revving engine. I have not doubt with the limitations of the gpl sound exe performance, carsounds are not easy to create for GPL and naturally pure onboard sounds may have a slightly different timbre to them but if you agree with my sentiment do you think there is a way you may be able to get a bit more of the bass note into the ra300 sound? Once more I would be interested to hear your opinion and hope your work continues to progress well.

#82 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 03 2013 - 01:50 PM

Sorry, forgot the link, here is the video.



and the second I mentioned of poorer quality.



#83 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 03 2013 - 03:54 PM

EDIT: see you already found this video and are working on a new BRM H16 sound :thumbup:  http://srmz.net/inde...t=45#entry87294

Edited by DuncanS, Oct 04 2013 - 11:57 AM.


#84 M Needforspeed

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Posted Oct 03 2013 - 05:05 PM

View PostDuncanS, on Sep 19 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

Like I say the Gunston Team seemed to have had a Braham BT20 or 24 with a BT19 repco style exhaust but look at the nose badge on the left car, is it a Lotus 49 fitted with a Repco engine?

Duncan,

your pic isn't at Kyalami, but at Kumalo .

On the left, it is  Sam Tingle LDS Repco V8 and on right John Love  Brabham BT 20 Repco, both fitted with the 66 Repco 680 engine, but with different inlets pipes .
When Tingle got the BT 24,it was untouched with the 740 engine .Brabham sold the two BT 24s with their engine after the South African GP .
For the Rhodesian GP Kumalo race ( 03/12/1967), Sam Tingle raced  for the first time with the GUNSTON Sponsor Number 4 car, and Love with Number 1 car.The cars wheren 't still entered officialy by Team Gunston, but had the brand liveries.

Maybe of note is that GUNSTON cigarets has been the true pioneer in extra automotive sponsorship to put his name on an F1 car, and not Chapman/Lotus  with GOLD LEAF, as usually always reported wrongly.in books and mags.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Oct 03 2013 - 06:41 PM.


#85 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 03 2013 - 06:09 PM

View PostM Needforspeed, on Oct 03 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

View PostDuncanS, on Sep 19 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

Like I say the Gunston Team seemed to have had a Braham BT20 or 24 with a BT19 repco style exhaust but look at the nose badge on the left car, is it a Lotus 49 fitted with a Repco engine?

On the left, it is  Sam Tingle LDS Repco V8 and on right John Love  Brabham BT 20 Repco, both fitted with the 66 Repco 680 engine, but with different inlets pipes . This pic is just at the beginning of 68 season,  just before Gunston got the Lotus 49 for Love, and the BT 24 for Tingle.
When Tingle got the BT 24,it was untouched with the 740 engine .Brabham sold the two BT 24s with their engine after the South African GP .

For the Rhodesian GP Kumalo race ( 03/12/1967), Sam Tingle raced  for the first time with the GUNSTON Sponsor Number 4 car, and Love with Number 1 car.The cars wheren 't still entered officialy by Team Gunston, but had the brand liveries.

So when they arrived at Kyalami for the 1968 SA GP ( January 1st 1968), they  had still retained on your pic, their Kumalo race numbers

Maybe of note is that GUNSTON cigarets has been the true pioneer in extra automotive sponsorship to put is name on an F1 car, and not Chapman with Gold Leaf, as generally believed  wrongly.

Good work Michel, I have followed up on your description and it all seems to fit as you describe.

Edited by DuncanS, Oct 03 2013 - 06:53 PM.


#86 M Needforspeed

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Posted Oct 03 2013 - 06:32 PM

After a further look at your pic, that's the Kumalo track tower, so I edited my post.

This wldn't be important, but Kumalo Rhodesian Gp 1967  race stands forever as the first  under F1 rules which saw F1 cars painted with the color of their sponsor, GUNSTON.


  

Edited by M Needforspeed, Oct 03 2013 - 06:49 PM.


#87 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 03 2013 - 06:53 PM

View PostM Needforspeed, on Oct 03 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

After a further look at your pic, that's the Kumalo track tower, so I edited my post.

Yes I think you are correct, I just found this...

  'At the Rhodesian Grand Prix at Kumalo, on the 3rd of December 1967, Rhodesia's Winston Tobacco Company, marketers of Gunston cigarettes, changed the commercial face of Grand Prix racing forever when they announced the formation of Team Gunston. John Love's Brabham Repco BT20 and the LDS Repco of team mate Sam Tingle, were revealed in the resplendent orange, brown and gold colours of the Gunston cigarette brand.'

#88 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 04 2013 - 04:11 AM

1967 Cooper T86 with the maserati Tipo 10 V12 engine as used on the Cooper T81 team works cars from the 1967 Belgian GP at Spa onwards I believe, the T86 appears to be using a similar exhaust manifold / layout as compared to the earlier T81 chassis. Have just seen and tried your latest Cooper beta, certainly is more complex and has some of the exhaust 'burble' we can hear in these vids, maybe you have seen them already but if not another helpful reference perhaps.




Edited by DuncanS, Oct 04 2013 - 12:04 PM.


#89 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 04 2013 - 04:11 AM

... and a couple more.






#90 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 04 2013 - 04:13 AM

Lastly more as a curio, sound quality is very muffled and poor quality, a Ford DFV on a Dyno



#91 ducwolf

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Posted Oct 05 2013 - 09:03 AM

Thx very much for the links ! Honda is known to me, but the Cooper V12 recordings are new to me.
You might also know the videos of the RA 272. Here is one that may show the difference between the
extern sound impression and what the driver will hear.
A Honda RA 272 driven by Dario Franchitti with sound recording in the cockpit



#92 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 05 2013 - 09:28 AM

View Postducwolf, on Oct 05 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

Thx very much for the links ! Honda is known to me, but the Cooper V12 recordings are new to me.
You might also know the videos of the RA 272. Here is one that may show the difference between the
extern sound impression and what the driver will hear.
A Honda RA 272 driven by Dario Franchitti with sound recording in the cockpit

Yes, an interesting and helpful video again, the ra272. The challenge I think comes perhaps with the personal choices made in how to consider what the sounds for GPL cars should include (incorporate).

With the pure onboard sound where a racing car is being driven forward at speed the sound from the exhausts is ejected at speed behind and away from the car (and recording microphone and driver) so you are left more with just the metallic sound of the engine components working away. In this video you posted, right at the end you hear what is apparently again an onboard recording of the engine being revved but this time with the car in a seemingly static position. On this occasion you can hear much more of the exhaust note or 'song' if you prefer, along with the engine workings and this for me is what is special about engine sounds, the engine's exhaust 'song'. Each unique to each engine and the design of exhaust used. My own personal preference which would give me more enjoyment (and for others their preferences may be different) would be to have more of the exhaust 'song' or note within the pure mechanical sound of the engine components working even though in realistic terms this may be heard slightly less by a driver 'onboard' when driving at speed. Using more of the exhaust sounds adds more overall character and uniqueness to each sound and because the GPL exe is so limited in producing sounds within GPL, this is again another reason why I would argue in favour of such a choice of approach.

I hope I explain my thoughts well and again interested to hear your sentiments Wolfgang, thanks.

Duncan

#93 ducwolf

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Posted Oct 06 2013 - 07:10 AM

It was always my aproach making sounds with a mixture of the cockpit sound  a n d  the exhaust noises. But there is another most important feature that makes
a huge part of any car sound: The intake noises. They are definatly the loudest part of the engine sound and may not be missed for a complete result.
GPL sound exe with one single sound wav needs this mixture because also the cars around You in GPL must sound good. The opponent cars should be heared only as extern
sounds, but GPL doesn't split into onboard and extern noises. Even if it is possible to create a wav with excellent cockpit noises, the cars around would sound
cheap and the whole sound immersion will be poor. That's why I totaly agree with You and always tried to mix those three features of an engine sound.

My fascination for the engine sounds let me work on it since 2002 and I got a lot of experiences and many impressions of the sounds from countless
recordings by myself as well as hundreds ( or thousands !? ) of videos that are available since f.e. YouTube is online.
So I heared cars / engines in many different ways. Extern and intern, with different methods of recording and qualities. Meanwhile I am pretty sure about the
real sound character of most cars we have in GPL and the way they should be mixed to respect the right mixture of the above mentioned sound features and the relation
between in- and ex sound.
And I'm also sure that a real good recording will show that the driver hears all parts of the sound, even if the relation will be with a little overweight for
mechanical noises and intake sound. For example hear the Ferrari 312 1966 onboard Mike Parkes at Monza:


I will say I agree with Your oppinion and try to create wav files with the best possible emphasis of mechanical - , exhaust - and airbox noises.
But believe me it is some kind of "squaring the circle" with one single wav for on- and offload, in and extern and the rev range from idle to the rev peak.

Edited by ducwolf, Oct 06 2013 - 07:13 AM.


#94 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 06 2013 - 12:40 PM

View Postducwolf, on Oct 06 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

It was always my aproach making sounds with a mixture of the cockpit sound  a n d  the exhaust noises. But there is another most important feature that makes
a huge part of any car sound: The intake noises. They are definatly the loudest part of the engine sound and may not be missed for a complete result.
GPL sound exe with one single sound wav needs this mixture because also the cars around You in GPL must sound good. The opponent cars should be heared only as extern
sounds, but GPL doesn't split into onboard and extern noises. Even if it is possible to create a wav with excellent cockpit noises, the cars around would sound
cheap and the whole sound immersion will be poor. That's why I totaly agree with You and always tried to mix those three features of an engine sound.

My fascination for the engine sounds let me work on it since 2002 and I got a lot of experiences and many impressions of the sounds from countless
recordings by myself as well as hundreds ( or thousands !? ) of videos that are available since f.e. YouTube is online.
So I heared cars / engines in many different ways. Extern and intern, with different methods of recording and qualities. Meanwhile I am pretty sure about the
real sound character of most cars we have in GPL and the way they should be mixed to respect the right mixture of the above mentioned sound features and the relation
between in- and ex sound.
And I'm also sure that a real good recording will show that the driver hears all parts of the sound, even if the relation will be with a little overweight for
mechanical noises and intake sound. For example hear the Ferrari 312 1966 onboard Mike Parkes at Monza:

Yes I see, thank you for the clear explanation Wolfgang and I have no doubt of the considerable care and effort you have taken to achieve the best sounds you can for us.

View Postducwolf, on Oct 06 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

... believe me it is some kind of "squaring the circle" with one single wav for on- and offload, in and extern and the rev range from idle to the rev peak.

I understand very well what you are saying, I can imagine it's really close to a, if not an impossible, task to create all the necessary sounds within a single wav. file for each chassis so I wish you continued success in your 'sound laboratory' and look forward to your next set of developments with the 67 soundset and others. Many thanks Wolfgang.

#95 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 07 2013 - 03:16 PM

Jackpot! Goodwood revival 2013, head to 1min 11 seconds (very good recording in the open air) and revs right at the end ...

http://youtu.be/Ok61w8MpYVw?t=1m11s

and a second, boy is that engine (and car) in beautiful condition!



If we are lucky some more video footage may crop up.

Edited by DuncanS, Oct 15 2013 - 04:22 AM.


#96 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 07 2013 - 03:18 PM

wooo!




... and very briefly here starting at 3mins 5secs.
http://youtu.be/kUXIkFUmCfI?t=3m5s

Edited by DuncanS, Oct 08 2013 - 04:52 AM.


#97 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 07 2013 - 03:48 PM

Never heard it before, Ferrari Dino 166 F2 1.6l V6 ( two brief but good loud revs at the start of the video I think).



unfortunately with wind and announcer sounds, very poor quality but gives an idea of the sound on track.


Edited by DuncanS, Oct 07 2013 - 11:47 PM.


#98 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 07 2013 - 04:03 PM

and this, although there is a comment to say it's a Ferrari 3.0l F1 car, in fact I believe it is actually a Ferrari dino 166 F2 chassis fitted with the 2.4l V6 Ferrari 246 F1 engine as used in 1966 at Monaco by Bandini. The engine was then fitted to the F2 chassis and raced by chris amon in the 1967-68 tasman series.



#99 DuncanS

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Posted Oct 07 2013 - 04:50 PM

... and a last one for the lotus 49, good for a reference maybe but I don't think he gives the throttle enough 'welly' to get the true sound which is a pity.


Edited by DuncanS, Oct 07 2013 - 05:27 PM.


#100 ducwolf

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Posted Oct 11 2013 - 12:25 AM

Thx for the beautiful video of the Lotus 43! Excellent condition and sound quality !!!!
I found again this epic video with the RA 300 and J.Surtees at the wheel :up:


Edited by ducwolf, Oct 11 2013 - 12:30 AM.





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