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#1 BZ2011

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Posted Dec 04 2010 - 07:45 PM

Hi Freinds,
             Want to say hello to everyone being my first post. Also great site, i  couldnt find  any other sites
where the GPLers  hungout  that equalled or surpassed RSC  until  i stumbled on to  this one here, nice site.  
             Ok, my question as mentioned in the topic title  above is  a problem im having  running  replay in external camera views. The particular  track im having trouble with  is  the 1967 Hockenheim  track  By  M.Daniels (awesome track by the way.) Runs great incar,  however in external camera 1 or 2 views  everything is ok until cars reach entry to  "Sachs Curve"  area and  GPL Crashes To Desktop.  Anybody have same problem or a fix  that can be applied  would  be great, i really would like to  see the cars blasting threw this area of the track  in external camera views lol.  Wich  reminds me to mention i ran  3 different  carsets threw here and  i get same   problem  default  67 cars,  69 mod cars, and the sportscars.. so im  kind of puzzled. Maybe a change  in the camera angle  or something  any help  be appreciated.  Im running  ATI 4870  card, latest rasterizers V2, and  Intel QX9770 cpu, 4Gigs Ram.

Edited by BZ2011, Dec 05 2010 - 02:09 AM.


#2 Saiph

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Posted Dec 04 2010 - 08:33 PM

Hi BZ, welcome to the SRMZ.  :wave:

I used to have the same problem with Hockenheim '67 myself a long time ago, and the only thing which fixed it for me was updating my graphics drivers. Unfortunately I was running an nVidia card at the time (and I still do, although it's a later model), so I can't recommend a driver version for your card.

However, there are lots of ATI users on here. If you let us know what drivers you are using at the moment (and your operating system - that's always useful), they may be able to suggest an upgrade.

One other thing you could try. Switch from Direct3D to OpenGL or vice-versa and see if that makes a difference.

Hope you find a fix soon.

#3 BZ2011

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Posted Dec 05 2010 - 12:46 AM

View PostSaiph, on Dec 04 2010 - 08:33 PM, said:

Hi BZ, welcome to the SRMZ.  :wave:

I used to have the same problem with Hockenheim '67 myself a long time ago, and the only thing which fixed it for me was updating my graphics drivers. Unfortunately I was running an nVidia card at the time (and I still do, although it's a later model), so I can't recommend a driver version for your card.

However, there are lots of ATI users on here. If you let us know what drivers you are using at the moment (and your operating system - that's always useful), they may be able to suggest an upgrade.

One other thing you could try. Switch from Direct3D to OpenGL or vice-versa and see if that makes a difference.

Hope you find a fix soon.

Hi Saiph,
                Thanks for quick reply.  Im running  WindowsXPHome 32-bit OS, as for the ATI Catalyst drivers

                im running  the 10.10 catalyst's  wich were released october.

#4 Bernd Nowak

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Posted Dec 05 2010 - 05:36 AM

I don't know how skilled you are but the 10.10 had serious problems. There was a hot-fix for Vista but anyway, 10.11 is out. Maybe that and trying with V2 rasterisers cure your problem?

#5 Tato

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Posted Dec 05 2010 - 09:09 AM

Among the tracks that I have installed along the years (not too many, to be honest), Hockenheim 67 is the only one where I have this issue. Because I have not read before today about it, I've always thought that happens only in my installs (both with an older pc with Ati card and my present pc with NVIDIA card, for reference), but now seems to affect other GPL installs too.
As you've wrote, it occurs with every mod at Sachs Curve (usually after 2 or 3 laps for me), both with 1 and 2 default external cameras, but not with cameracar; I'm not an expert nor a trackmaker, but it feels like a sort of mismatch.

So around 3 years ago, with the help of TrkCAMEdit, I've changed here and there in the external cams (was a lot of trial and error, if I can remember well), till I've obtained a little more stable 1 and 2 cams. "Little more" means that usually there are no more crashes when watching replays, except sometimes when switching from cam 1 to 2 or vice-versa, so is better, to remain on the safe side, to choose a cam before starting a replay and keep that till the end.
Sorry for the long and boring story, I conclude saying that, if you want, should not be a great problem to upload here my modified cam (hope it not hurts anyone), so you can give it a try if you want.

#6 BZ2011

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Posted Dec 05 2010 - 10:01 AM

View PostBernd Nowak, on Dec 05 2010 - 05:36 AM, said:

I don't know how skilled you are but the 10.10 had serious problems. There was a hot-fix for Vista but anyway, 10.11 is out. Maybe that and trying with V2 rasterisers cure your problem?
           Ok thanks Bernd,
              
                   I will go grab those and give them a try just for sake to see if i can squeeze few more fps
                   out, as of now though  the 10.10's  are  running GPL fantastic for me in D3D and in all my  
                   games for that matter in 1920x1080 w/ HiRes texture updates on lcd. Tato is offering a post
                   of his camera views below so im going to give those a shot as well.

#7 BZ2011

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Posted Dec 05 2010 - 10:36 AM

View PostTato, on Dec 05 2010 - 09:09 AM, said:

Among the tracks that I have installed along the years (not too many, to be honest), Hockenheim 67 is the only one where I have this issue. Because I have not read before today about it, I've always thought that happens only in my installs (both with an older pc with Ati card and my present pc with NVIDIA card, for reference), but now seems to affect other GPL installs too.
As you've wrote, it occurs with every mod at Sachs Curve (usually after 2 or 3 laps for me), both with 1 and 2 default external cameras, but not with cameracar; I'm not an expert nor a trackmaker, but it feels like a sort of mismatch.

So around 3 years ago, with the help of TrkCAMEdit, I've changed here and there in the external cams (was a lot of trial and error, if I can remember well), till I've obtained a little more stable 1 and 2 cams. "Little more" means that usually there are no more crashes when watching replays, except sometimes when switching from cam 1 to 2 or vice-versa, so is better, to remain on the safe side, to choose a cam before starting a replay and keep that till the end.
Sorry for the long and boring story, I conclude saying that, if you want, should not be a great problem to upload here my modified cam (hope it not hurts anyone), so you can give it a try if you want.
    Hi Tato,  Thanks for reply and  i find it interesting your having  the same problem in this certain area of
              hockenheim track.Im not a programmer or track builder  but  im thinking the poly count is high in
              this area and when the external cam used  here in replay  something is getting  overloaded not sure
              what lol. I'd  definitley like to give your camera angles a try. Maybe i or somebody else
              can tweak  them a bit more  if that is ok with you and rerelease them  for everybody having similar
              issue as we are. I'll be sure to credit you  at the top in the rerelease.

#8 BZ2011

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Posted Dec 05 2010 - 06:57 PM

Ok,   Im going to  give this a shot, and see what i  can do with the  gpl camera editor. Hopefully  i'll get the  sweet spot  for the external  1+2  camera views  that GPL agree's with. Im not sure on the ease of the Camera Editor Utility's use :gaah:      so not  sure how long it will take me  to produce  something. But  least you  all know i will be working on it and i will keep you all posted. Hopefully  we can get this fixed for people having  this similar  issue. :)

#9 BZ2011

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Posted Dec 05 2010 - 08:59 PM

View PostBZ2011, on Dec 05 2010 - 06:57 PM, said:

Ok,   Im going to  give this a shot, and see what i  can do with the  gpl camera editor. Hopefully  i'll get the  sweet spot  for the external  1+2  camera views  that GPL agree's with. Im not sure on the ease of the Camera Editor Utility's use :gaah:      so not  sure how long it will take me  to produce  something. But  least you  all know i will be working on it and i will keep you all posted. Hopefully  we can get this fixed for people having  this similar  issue. :)
      Ok i downloaded a  trackeditor and have it installed. (using Joachim Blums TrkCamEdit) seems pretty decent. Before i get into it i ran a test on other PC with WinXP Home 32Bit  OS,  3.8ghz Prescott CPU, 4GigsRam, Nvidia 7800GTX Graphics card. I ran in 1600x1200 resolution all details maxed on high with Full Grid  of Default 67 Cars (No Carskin Updates Applied).  I started  a race  and went right into livefeed  selecting External  Camera 2  and  picked an unlucky  contestent  sandwiched  in midfield  of the
full pack of cars  to really make the cpu/graphics card work.  All  cars went threw this area  (Sachs Curve) on the hockenheim track  without a problem in both external 1 and 2  camera views.  Then i applied the latest greatest  carskin updates  to all the cars and did same thing. Bam! Right to the desktop in same area  me and Tato were having the issues.  So evidentally  have to try to  get a cam angle in external 1 or 2 views  that will show cars going threw this area  but on a different angle.  I was thinking of something  along the lines  of a view  from the spectator  area in the grandstands but
up a bit more  100-200ft.  positioned on an angle. Or maybe  an overhead type of blimp view on an angle. Anything that will keep the  replay flowing and not crashing back to desktop. The sky's  the limit i guess with editor lol, so on that note im off. Hopefully have  fix for everyone posted  in a bit. :thumbup:

Edited by BZ2011, Dec 05 2010 - 09:00 PM.


#10 Art-J

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Posted Dec 06 2010 - 12:46 AM

Crashing Hockenheim was a known and thoroughly discussed problem years ago after the track was released. I remember a loooong thread about it, running at old RSC. If I recall correctly the issue was caused by some minor coordinates fault in the track structure, in the mentioned section. Some fixes were posted (trk or 3do fixes rather then cam files?), which reduced number of users who had to deal with the problem. However, since these fixes were posted as attachments, they're gone with the old RSC.

After applying these, my install of Hockenheim seemed to be running allright, with all high-rez bells ad whistles on cars, however I admit I've never run a race there (hotlapping only!). When I get back home, I'll try to browse my old CDs and see what I can find.

Cheers - Art

Edited by Art-J, Dec 06 2010 - 12:50 AM.


#11 Tato

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Posted Dec 06 2010 - 02:20 AM

Hi. Never aware that was an already known issue, so thanks to Art-J for describing it.

Should be a good thing if someone has the right files and upload them. In the meantime, here is my cam file, it's only my 2 cents, hope it may help a bit. Make what you want with it: use it, edit, delete, or simply throw it out of the window, no need to ask for further permission, lol. Anyway, if someone want to give a try, please make me know if it works or not. Thanks.

Attached Files


Edited by Tato, Dec 06 2010 - 02:25 AM.


#12 Art-J

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Posted Dec 06 2010 - 10:13 AM

Hmmm... after getting back from work, I've run some tests with '67 Lotus and ooops... my Hockeheim crashes again, although I'm pretty sure it wasn't at some point in the history of my rasterizers / gfx drivers / 60fps patches configuration. Good thing is - the crash occurs only on TV2 cam, always exactly in the same spot (when the cam mounted "high" shows only the close-up of the car, a piece of tarmac and grass, so there are absolutely no polygon heavy track objects in sight  :idunno: ).

After browsing my CD archive, I've found numerous files and updates from 2003, which I downloaded and tested 5 years ago. I'll post 2 of them, which, judging by the filenames and readmes, have something to do with fixing of the CTD problem. See attachments below. Right now I'm using the version of 3do file, which has the size of 3086256 bytes. Obviously, it doesn't want to work flawlessly here anymore, but maybe it will on your computer cofiguration.

Cheers - Art

Edit: Tato, I've just tried your cam file and it allows me to drive through the "dangerous" point without crash (both TV1 and TV2 cams). Good work! Mind you, it was just a test with single '67 Lotus on a track, so further tests with other mods and numbers of cars will be necessary!

Attached Files


Edited by Art-J, Dec 06 2010 - 10:22 AM.


#13 BZ2011

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Posted Dec 06 2010 - 05:25 PM

View PostArt-J, on Dec 06 2010 - 10:13 AM, said:

Hmmm... after getting back from work, I've run some tests with '67 Lotus and ooops... my Hockeheim crashes again, although I'm pretty sure it wasn't at some point in the history of my rasterizers / gfx drivers / 60fps patches configuration. Good thing is - the crash occurs only on TV2 cam, always exactly in the same spot (when the cam mounted "high" shows only the close-up of the car, a piece of tarmac and grass, so there are absolutely no polygon heavy track objects in sight  :idunno: ).

After browsing my CD archive, I've found numerous files and updates from 2003, which I downloaded and tested 5 years ago. I'll post 2 of them, which, judging by the filenames and readmes, have something to do with fixing of the CTD problem. See attachments below. Right now I'm using the version of 3do file, which has the size of 3086256 bytes. Obviously, it doesn't want to work flawlessly here anymore, but maybe it will on your computer cofiguration.

Cheers - Art

Edit: Tato, I've just tried your cam file and it allows me to drive through the "dangerous" point without crash (both TV1 and TV2 cams). Good work! Mind you, it was just a test with single '67 Lotus on a track, so further tests with other mods and numbers of cars will be necessary!
Great guys any files or anything  you have you think will work  put in this thread..im still getting grips on this cam editor  there are a few other cam editors out  but  dead links  on majority of them.  Tato i tried your  camera external and it worked threw the  "sachs curve"  problem area  but cut out on me upon the exit to the start/finish
straight lol. So hey, at least making some progress. I tried both  single hot lap  and  with full grid and  both times.. ArtJ  your 3DO's seemed to work great  for the hotlaps  
with hi-res carskins  in the external views but anytime 4 or 5  other cars get into the mix   upon exiting the  turn to the start/finish straight  it cuts out and crashes to desktop about  midway  down the straight..so like i said  above with Tato's  file and with yours we are at least getting  closer  it seems to a solution.. hopefully next few days we get few more people  viewing thread that submit more suggestions/tips  in meantime im going to try and mess with this editor  more and see what i can do.

Edited by BZ2011, Dec 06 2010 - 05:29 PM.


#14 Tato

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Posted Dec 07 2010 - 03:12 AM

View PostBZ2011, on Dec 06 2010 - 05:25 PM, said:

Tato i tried your  camera external and it worked threw the  "sachs curve"  problem area  but cut out on me upon the exit to the start/finish
straight lol. So hey, at least making some progress.

Cut out at the end of start straight? Never noticed, really, don't know if could be related to different screen resolution or aspect ratio; sometimes I have to edit default cams at some tracks because they cut out your car too much, or simply you can see nothing because the cam is put in the trees, but sometimes a compromise is required, i.e. to avoid too much pop-ups, graphics glitches, and other visual artifacts related to GPL old graphics engine. But hey, you have the cam editor, so please mess with it till you have your preferred cams.

About avoiding the CTDs, based on previous tests made so far, I pretty sure that my cams works 99% of the times (no matter about carset, updates, graphics card or drivers, number of cars on the track imho) till you DOES NOT switch from a cam to another, as I've previously wrote, but I'm pretty sure too that the issue is still there, so I want to try the files Art-J has posted before, hoping they are not too much heavy for my poor pc.

#15 BZ2011

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Posted Dec 07 2010 - 09:47 PM

Hi again.  Well im happy to say  with  Tato's  cam fix  and Art-J's  3do files   for some  strange reason my cams all of them are working in all views in replay at the moment, including the  troublesome External 1 and 2 views  that previously giving us  the problems. This was a good 20 mins of testing  with fully updated  67 cars  and 1600x1200
resolution. I had about givin up on the editor  so thought i would start things over  by  removing/deleting the  hockenheim track  out of tracks folder and reinstall it.  I then  in the following order installed  Art-J's  3DO files  the   3do V1.01  then  the  3do extra mips files.  I then dropped Tato's  Hockenheim cam fix into it and loaded  gpl.
Right off the bat i  went into full grid  race  exited  race, and watched the  race from live camera view for duration switching  threw the  camera views in the  problematic areas   around "sachs curve" and the start/finish line straight and then leaving the cams  on  external one  for a lap or 2  then  switch and  leave external camera 2 on for few laps. Not sure  if its a matter of how  we install the files maybe?  :idunno:  But  anyways  no more crashes  so far.  :thumbup:

Edited by BZ2011, Dec 07 2010 - 09:48 PM.


#16 Tato

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Posted Dec 08 2010 - 06:55 AM

Hi BZ2011,

Glad to know that seems to work for you too. I've installed the updates Art-J has posted, then watched at some live replays using my cams, 67 and 69 carsets, full grid, full details, OpenGL v2, 1024*768, and seems to work even switching the cams, so probably the .3do file is correct now, at least hope so. I will make more tests when I found some time.




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