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How I Got Much Faster In One Day...


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#1 Millennium

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Posted Aug 20 2010 - 02:32 PM

Actually, this is very silly.

I was always bored with the '65 t/m '67 mods, because the cars were very slow.
It felt like ages before they started to build up speed, so racing them wasn't that much fun.
Races againt the AI were no fun either, no way I could keep up with them.
Untill... I realised I've never looked at the gear setup.
Turned out I was driving with way to big ratios, most of the time I drove in 1 gear!

I do enjoy the cars from 65 66 and 67 now!  
Finally those engines make a nice and powerfull sound, I can even take over AI cars.
Here's gameplay video I've recorded today, I could never drive that fast before.


GPL just became a lot more fun, now I understand why some of you here are playing this game over 10 years.
It's really exciting!

#2 Arturo Pereira

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Posted Aug 20 2010 - 03:05 PM

Welcome to the club :)

#3 benzman

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Posted Aug 20 2010 - 03:09 PM

As I understand it, and someone will correct me if I am wrong, every track has hidden in one of its files default setups for every car.  This is how you can go from slow, tight Monaco to bullet-fast Spa without having to make any changes to the gear ratios.  However, not all tracks contain setups for '65 cars and so they will load a '67 setup, which will give gear ratios so high that you will be lucky to get into fourth gear, let alone fifth.  If this happens either go into the setup menu and lower the final drive ratio or, preferably, go to the track Database and download a '65 setup for the desired track.

#4 Remco Hitman - guest

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Posted Aug 20 2010 - 03:52 PM

Time to buy that wheel you've been dreaming about!

#5 Millennium

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Posted Aug 21 2010 - 05:16 AM

View PostArturo Pereira, on Aug 20 2010 - 03:05 PM, said:

Welcome to the club :)
Thanks ;)

View Postbenzman, on Aug 20 2010 - 03:09 PM, said:

As I understand it, and someone will correct me if I am wrong, every track has hidden in one of its files default setups for every car.  This is how you can go from slow, tight Monaco to bullet-fast Spa without having to make any changes to the gear ratios.  However, not all tracks contain setups for '65 cars and so they will load a '67 setup, which will give gear ratios so high that you will be lucky to get into fourth gear, let alone fifth.  If this happens either go into the setup menu and lower the final drive ratio or, preferably, go to the track Database and download a '65 setup for the desired track.
I did notice a difference in default setups by some tracks, so I think you're right. Especially by the 65 mod, the default setup is very slow. But now it doesn't bother me anymore, I'm starting to understand what kind of setup for gpl cars I want to use. I now change the suspension and the camber a lot, and offcourse the gears. The only thing I don't understand is 'number of clutches'? What difference do you notice when driving with 1 or more clutches?

View PostRemco Hitman, on Aug 20 2010 - 03:52 PM, said:

Time to buy that wheel you've been dreaming about!
I first need a playseat I suppose (and yes it's a dream of mine for a long time ^^)
I bought a Momo racing wheel, mounted it on my deks. Well, force feedback sure worked, my whole desk was shaking.
Besides I use my desk for normal work to, so I have to remove it everytime, and I don't like that.

But for now I´ll stick with the keyboard, I´m getting reasonlby good at it so it will do for now.

#6 grego

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Posted Aug 21 2010 - 05:58 AM

everything is adjustable ..LOL this of course a blessing AND a curse .

Of course one can adjust the speed of the AI's to the extend that one has to really drive very well to win against them. The flippside of that is,
that one might never really know how good/bad one is as a driver.

However, the feedback of a good wheel is of course also very adjustable and the feedback strength only has to be strong enough to give
you " the feel". ( so that you can feel when the car goes into 4 wheel spin, for example) Nobody would suggest one has to have the feedback set
to a strenght that it "yanks" ones arms out of the ellbow joints. :lol:

All the best to you, It's nice that you have found the "sweetspot ofGPL" and now have fun driving.

#7 Remco Hitman - guest

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Posted Aug 21 2010 - 06:47 AM

Playseat is stupid; build your own frame!  :thumbup:

http://www.thewayipl...x.php?board=2.0

http://www.simracing...49c38b022660af4



The number of clutches is a complicated subject but basically lower numbers give a smoother transition at the cost of some initial torque.
You might want to stick to 1 :D

#8 John Woods

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Posted Aug 21 2010 - 09:17 AM

It would be nice to have a tutorial on clutches....


It has been noted the clutch component of the physics engine only effects lateral force, (if I understand that correctly). If that is what a car's setup menu diff and clutch variables control, the effect will be to change the driving line's curve. Right?

You can check out my less than $30USD home built race console...it's my member profile photo.

Edited by John Woods, Aug 21 2010 - 09:19 AM.


#9 MECH

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Posted Aug 21 2010 - 10:47 AM

View PostMillennium, on Aug 21 2010 - 05:16 AM, said:

I bought a Momo racing wheel, mounted it on my deks. Well, force feedback sure worked, my whole desk was shaking.
Besides I use my desk for normal work to, so I have to remove it everytime, and I don't like that.

But for now I´ll stick with the keyboard, I´m getting reasonlby good at it so it will do for now.

You can switch force feedback off if i'm not mistaken ;)
Never had a wheel with it though so i have no idea how it plays.
Tried a joystick with force feedback on a WWII fighter game lately and it was fun but i think i won't use it in GPL for my wheel.

I also have to remove the wheel frequently because i do a lot of GPL editing at the same desk.
But i like a wheel too much to find that a real trouble. Used to have joystick several years ago but you can't compare that or the keyboard with a wheel. GPL and a wheel are must to enjoy it to the full extend imho :)

#10 Remco Hitman - guest

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Posted Aug 21 2010 - 11:20 AM

Jeez Martin, what kind of pre-war wheel do you have I wonder?

Seriously, try a G25... Quick!

Edited by Remco Hitman, Aug 21 2010 - 11:20 AM.


#11 Millennium

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Posted Aug 21 2010 - 12:31 PM

I don't want to change the AI speed, it's pretty good now I think. The only problem is the start, I have to make sure I'm last on the grid, because the opponents accelerate really fast and crash into my rear sometimes. But after 2 corners I can start with overtaking. Yesterday I did a 10 lap race at Blue Mountain, completed 7 laps and was driving 4th place (11 cars on the grid). Offcourse I crashed! :P But it's my biggest succes with GPL yet!

Very nice steering wheel setups @Remco Hitman and John Woods!

I would love to have something like that to, but it's just not possible because I use my pc for a lot of different things like making music etc.

Besides my desk is not that solid, even with force feedback off the table moves with the wheel. (and I'm nót an aggresive driver xD)
I'll just see how good I can become with a keyboard, I am getting faster, only reliability is a problem with the keyboard, counter steering is to aggresive sometimes.

Edited by Millennium, Aug 21 2010 - 12:37 PM.


#12 Rudy Dingemans

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Posted Aug 21 2010 - 01:50 PM

View PostMillennium, on Aug 21 2010 - 05:16 AM, said:

But for now I´ll stick with the keyboard, I´m getting reasonlby good at it so it will do for now.

It won't. Really. Yes, you can be pretty quick with a keyboard with an ridiculous amount of practice...(only *if* you're basically an alien) but it still won't be anywhere near the real GPL experience, since GPL really wasn't made to be driven with keys.

I drove keyboard in my early days of GPLing (about 10 seconds slower per lap at Monza compared to my current PB), but it was only when I switched to a simple $ 20 non-FFB wheel when I got a real taste of driving these cars. Not surprising you can only barely keep up with the AI; with keys, on average you're losing about 1 to 4 seconds per lap.


Basically, you're cutting your GPL enjoyment in half by self-handicapping yourself with keys. Some games were designed to drive like that... but not GPL. Really. It only has keyboard support because in 1998 very few people had a wheel.

If your desk really won't fit a wheel, at least do what I do nowadays (not for GPL though) or like some old-time superfast aliens, and use a joystick/pedals or the analog thumbsticks on a gamepad. It won't replace a wheel, but at least you'll have much much more control of the cars... and you *will* be faster after getting used to it.  :2c:    :P

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank: -40)

PS. As for the 65/66 mod cars being slow: that's only a matter of perception. Simwise I've driven virtual Formula Fords and Formula Vees nowadays, and those are way slower still with only 100 BHP and 65 BHP respectively.
But after doing a lap for fun at the Top Gear test track, even that lowly vintage FFord is still about as fast as a Lamborghini Gallardo... with its 4WD and about 550 BHP.  And it'll break Phil Hill's 8:55 F1 lap record of the Ring in 1961 - even though there's the extra Hohenrain chicane in sim Ring versions.
Cars may be slower, but they also have a corresponding amount of lower grip... Same thing for the "F2" and "F3" in GPL.

Edited by Rudy Dingemans, Aug 21 2010 - 01:55 PM.


#13 benzman

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Posted Aug 21 2010 - 03:24 PM

View PostMillennium, on Aug 21 2010 - 05:16 AM, said:

The only thing I don't understand is 'number of clutches'? What difference do you notice when driving with 1 or more clutches?
Diffs and clutches are a bit of a can of worms.  There used to be a good explanation of it all on the old RaceSimCentral site but that has long gone.  As luck would have it I saved it onto my PC as three web pages.  Any links in them to other sites or graphics no longer work but all the words are still there.  I also have a .doc file that explains the diff function quite well.  I have zipped it all up and I hope nobody will mind if I attach it.

View PostMillennium, on Aug 20 2010 - 03:52 PM, said:

I bought a Momo racing wheel, mounted it on my deks. Well, force feedback sure worked, my whole desk was shaking.
If you go into your GPL folder and open a file called Core.ini you will find a line near the top that says 'max_steering_torque = 225'.  Change the value to 400 and try that (the bigger the number the weaker the FF).

Attached Files



#14 Millennium

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Posted Aug 21 2010 - 03:27 PM

I know, a wheel and pedals really gives you full control. Some corners I have to take alternative lines because my steering can't be smooth because of the keys.
But at the moment it's the only way for me to enjoy GPL, and even tough I miss a lot of the total expierence, it's really fun and challenging.

I do have a gamepad, but it's even worse then a keyboard in my opinion.
It's not like console racegames, the steering wheel goes immidiatly to the position of the joystick, there's no smooth motion.
Didn't try a flightstick or something like that, but I think I don't like that either.

By the way, I just remember I spotted a Ferrari wheel that included a mount construction with pedals on it, and you can just set it in front of your desk.
Don't know how much is costs, but it looks interesting for me I think.

About the 65 and 66 cars, I was wrong with saying the are slow. It was when I used the default setup, with that setup they are very slow.
But now they are a lot of fun ;)

*edit*
@Benzman, thanks!

Edited by Millennium, Aug 21 2010 - 03:28 PM.


#15 David Wright Lo67

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Posted Aug 21 2010 - 04:19 PM

If only Papyrus had found out that 60s F1 cars used a cam and pawl limited slip diff things would have been so much simpler.  No clutches, no ramp angles.  Heaven.

Edited by David Wright Lo67, Aug 21 2010 - 04:21 PM.





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