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Too Fast?

sily thread maybe

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#1 John Woods

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Posted Nov 24 2020 - 07:24 AM

Been wondering for a few days whether Grand Prix Legends might play better if things were slowed a bit.

Recently installed, (had installed), a 500GB SSD drive and a GTX 1650 Super(4GB). Can now reboot Win10 in about maybe less than 30secs.

Everything is blinkblinkblink.
The pace is frantic.

But, have been messing with fps issues ever since.

Found it is possible to drive on-line at 4fps and continue on until whatever is hanging up figures it out and gets things back to routine fps, (35.xx/36), as long as the car is on a straight it is not catastrophic.

Otherwise it is a time warp nightmare because FFB and steering control checks out as well. No hope if caught in the wrong place.

Or it gets so bad there is no going on.

The issue just comes and goes with no apparent consistency or correlation to graphics or track position., on-line or not.

So far no amount of tweaking, (4GB patch, Win10/Nvidia/GPL settings) has had much if any effect.

As hardware gets faster and faster is it possible some GPL issues are caused by things happening too fast?

Possible?

How can things be slowed a bit to test that?

Or is this just yet another early morning silly idea?

Edited by John Woods, Nov 24 2020 - 07:35 AM.


#2 Cookie

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Posted Nov 24 2020 - 07:59 AM

Wrong way!

The problem is the CPU and GPU keep sleeping as they do not recognize GPL as a 3D app.

You must activate the "disable intel speed step" in GEM and set the GPU in high performance mode in the NV settings - read Stefans installation guide!

Get openhardwaremonitor
https://openhardwaremonitor.org/

Look at 0:01 in plot you see the CPU and GPU do full throttle! in GPL

Attached Files

  • Attached File  HWM.png   65.58K   30 downloads

Edited by Cookie, Nov 24 2020 - 08:19 AM.


#3 John Woods

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Posted Nov 24 2020 - 08:32 AM

Yes, well. Maybe the wrong way.
First thing, a few weeks ago, was disable speed step and tweak as per Stefan's guide.
And Lee's Tutorial and just generally searching and trying.

My new plan is to solicit a trade with local tech of all PCs and misc. chips, cards, wires, etc for a PC that works.
Surely some of it is bona fide collectible.

In the meantime, was thinking a few days ago when first playing GPL the HD was 40GB and the CPU was 2.xxGHZ,  spit for memory, and the hottest GeForce Ti was 32MB of memory, which was best out at the time, (for about a week)..

36fps flawless.

A lot has changed and it all gets slammed into code that has not?

How much light can you push through a rock?

Is anything else other than GPL having this issue? Not that I am aware.

So why is it so many have so many issues?

Edited by John Woods, Nov 24 2020 - 08:52 AM.


#4 Cookie

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Posted Nov 24 2020 - 09:00 AM

I have this W10 pc to test a Radeon GPU mainly for linux. (AMD fails to make any GPU settings gui for linux...)
But I have this HTPC with low spec Ryzen3 and NVidia GT 1030 and it runs solid 60fps at Spa67 69x full grid from the rear...
I search for the minimum hardware to run solid GPL 60fps on all tracks ;)

First our pcs were underpowered for GPL
Then they were good for GPL
Now they are overpowered with a horrible water head OS W10.

IMO it's not your pc, it's your software settings!

#5 John Woods

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Posted Nov 24 2020 - 10:52 AM

But it is not any setting that is consistently messing things up.
It is a random effect with no apparent correlation to anything yet.

Guessing by now settings are all a mess, but fps annoyance has remained the same throughout.

Really wondering if there are maybe some more general answers to the too many issues users have.

#6 Cookie

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Posted Nov 24 2020 - 10:57 AM

Random is only W10 an its 65 background apps running...

#7 ptmac3

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Posted Nov 24 2020 - 12:45 PM

It's not the hardware being too fast for GPL. You can rule that out. Check out my pc specs below. I have no problem except for sometimes having an fps issue online, but not always. I was told it might be related to Teamspeak. Maybe. If I understand you correctly everything worked properly before the hardware upgrade. Is that right? I'd be looking for something that changed when that was completed. A hardware setting not switched on or off, perhaps. A recent update to Win 10? Have you tried it with another sim or game?

Percy

#8 John Woods

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Posted Nov 24 2020 - 01:43 PM

View PostCookie, on Nov 24 2020 - 10:57 AM, said:

Random is only W10 an its 65 background apps running...

Right, meant to get on that also.

So far anything stumbled into gets shut down.
Updates are stopped except security and PC is in "gaming mode" to stop whatever that stops.

Installing latest Nvidia drivers had no effect.

There is 4GB video card memory and 8GB DDR3. Virtual memory was set at 3X recommended, maybe 4X, because 2X didn't seem like much.

GPL is the only sim installed, (pretty much the only program except for some utilities and a screen shot app).
,
No hang ups on YT.

Everything has got bigger, which should not matter except for mip size, and everything has got faster, so was thinking maybe like mips that are too big maybe there's some speeds that run things on top of each other and create something like waves of display frequency standing harmonic dissonance.

That would probably seem random.

Thanks for thoughts everyone.
Will keep in touch.
:)

Edited by John Woods, Nov 24 2020 - 03:46 PM.


#9 Cookie

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Posted Nov 24 2020 - 05:11 PM

John the new NV driver changes nothing, as long you don't set a profile for the gplc67.exe in the settings.

Did you test the openHardwaremonitor? This plot will show you what is going on...
The graphs of the clocks have to be a horizontal line as long GPL is running

#10 Stefan Roess

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Posted Nov 25 2020 - 04:59 AM

John, your PC hardware is for sure not too fast for GPL.
GPL runs fine for many users with modern recent powerful hardware. I know at least two guys personally that have recently bought powerful systems that run GPL fine.

It is related to your Windows and graphics settings and not to your hardware.

I do not have a modern PC, but GPL runs fine with the latest Windows 10 20H2, October update 2020.
Your problems should not be related to the latest Windows version.

Are you using an Nvidia graphics card or an AMD graphics card (I can not help you on an AMD card, I have never used one, but Axel can help you with AMD)?

Please see my guide for graphics settings:
http://gplworld.de/e...tallation-guide

Are you running GPL in OpenGL v2 or D3D v2? Try both, usually OpenGL v2 works better with GPL.

As Axel wrote you need to set a profile for the gplc67.exe in your graphics cards settings. If you don`t do so your graphics card will use the default profile settings for all games installed including all GPL mods.

Edited by Stefan Roess, Nov 25 2020 - 08:18 AM.


#11 paul skingley

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Posted Nov 25 2020 - 07:59 AM

Your problem is that sometimes you get unexpected low frame rate using mods and tracks that normally run OK ?

If so, I heard the same thing from another racer earlier this year.
For him it was mostly online I think, and by exiting the server and joining again the frame rate was restored. Sometimes the problem repeated in the same session.

I am not sure what he did to fix it but I can find out if this is the same issue you are having.



Paul

#12 John Woods

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Posted Nov 25 2020 - 09:14 AM

What happens is fps drop seems to build slowly peaks and fades. it is more like a wave building up and once past everything recovers, or just becomes too much to continue on. But does not freeze.

So, have been guessing it is a light speed bottleneck that finally breaks and things smooth out again, or Cookie is right all along.

It happens on-line or not.
(Except for testing this issue rarely drive off-line)

Because it seems to randomly build up like a wave coming in, peaks and goes away, it is probably not a setting concern because that would have a consistent effect?

Here's my TODO list:

1. Check BIOS for video card configuration?
(Been years since doing that)
2. Follow-up on advice in this thread
3. Shut down more Win10 things

Figured because only running GPL that tweaking the general settings was good enough, so did not see need for profile?

Thanks everyone.
:)

Edited by John Woods, Nov 25 2020 - 10:07 AM.


#13 Cookie

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Posted Nov 25 2020 - 10:11 AM

John to make it more visible: As your powerfull hardware does not recognize GPL as a 3D Game it runs in idle mode.

Look this is my AMD profile for default and for gpl67

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#14 John Woods

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Posted Nov 25 2020 - 11:07 AM

Apologies Cookie I have no idea where to find anything like what you are showing or what I am looking at.
Have a GTX 1650 Super and Nvidia control panel?

Is there a step-by-step list of how to get Win10 to recognize GPL as a 3D application?
(Do recall comments about it in the past)


Thanks
:)

#15 paul skingley

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Posted Nov 25 2020 - 11:14 AM

Just a thought, is your hardware overheating when you play GPL ?

Check fans on CPU and GPU are clean and working.




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#16 John Woods

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Posted Nov 25 2020 - 11:25 AM

View Postpaul skingley, on Nov 25 2020 - 11:14 AM, said:

Just a thought, is your hardware overheating when you play GPL ?

Check fans on CPU and GPU are clean and working.
Paul

Thought of that this morning.
:)

Fans work all the time, one on video card, one on CPU, one on case.

Had been thinking all along 3D acceleration did not seem quite right.

Always thought if the credit's scroll was nice and smooth things were okay.
This latest install after the card and SSD upgrades has never had that.
It chunks and hangs up the screen at different speeds depending on its mood.

Afternoon Edit:

Added Nvidia profiles for all gpl.exes.
Based on watching YT videos, confirmed (I guess) forced use of video card.
My Nvidia CP does not have same options as on videos, so no idea. In particular, the dialogue box above the general settings options, shown in videos, that allows selecting either intel or Nvidia graphics, is not there.

Turned almost everything Win10 off using O&O Shutup10.

Still searching for how to make Win10 see GPL as 3D.

Nothing else has changed.

Found this cool widgety thing that posts temps on taskbar:https://windowsloop....ure-on-taskbar/

And BTW, really really appreciate the interest and help.

Edited by John Woods, Nov 25 2020 - 03:22 PM.


#17 Cookie

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Posted Nov 25 2020 - 05:17 PM

My pics were just graphical examples to understand that for GPL we need not small steps upwards but only full throttle (NV has no graphical settings)

What makes our such powerfull PCs today so bad for GPL - their power saving mode - they are idling.

Set 3D mode for CPU? -> The GEM setting does this by "disable intel speed step"
in the win10 energy settings there is  the " high performance mode"  ->  my picture below!


the GPU is only stimulated to more activity by certain requirements as is a 3D app - so raise the quality settings to extreme high

Look in Stefans installation guide (bottom of his posts) and use the settings for AA and so on from there


last but not least to control your success, DL https://openhardwaremonitor.org/ and look in the plot what CPU and GPU are doing when you start GPL


Here is my german W10 energy setting (W7 mode!) maybe also usefull for Stefan ;)

Attached Files


Edited by Cookie, Nov 25 2020 - 05:42 PM.


#18 John Woods

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Posted Nov 25 2020 - 08:05 PM

Duplicated Stefan's Profile Inspector settings exactly, got sort of the same effects?
Most of the settings had already been set to it.
Then based on the load up 3D settings theory, bumped that up and got something better?
Maybe.

Things did work a little better, so guessing with no other idea keep tweak/guessing card settings?

There's only about a gazillion of them.

Late Night Edit:
So, increasing graphic settings makes things work better some.
Tweaking/guessing has resulted in big improvement but not there yet.

Noticed searching that the web is full of Win10 hanging & crashing advice.


Back later
:)

Edited by John Woods, Nov 25 2020 - 09:51 PM.


#19 Saiph

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Posted Nov 25 2020 - 10:07 PM

Given the description of your problem John, I would make sure that you check the Nvidia setting "Power management mode", and make sure that it is set to something like "maximum performance" or "optimal performance". Without this, the graphics card may be trying to save power by not running in full 3D mode, and this may cause your frame rate drop and stuttering.

Cookie has mentioned this slowdown briefly in a couple of his posts, but he didn't mention the actual name of the setting that you should check, so I thought I would clarify this point.

Edited by Saiph, Nov 25 2020 - 10:11 PM.


#20 John Woods

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Posted Nov 26 2020 - 08:59 AM

Amazing. A whole new alley full of fun.
Now like car setups able to test settings between profiles.

Gotta love it.

Recovered maybe 90 percent by loading things up until now with 67 F1s full grid at Monjuic69 after flag drops fps sinks to 22-25ish while trying it seems to go up instead of down. Most of first lap spent between 30-36fps mostly near 33-34-35.

So that is a BIG BIG improvement.

Hopeful it will hold beyond the one time this morning it has worked that well.

Thanks Saiph. This new to me idea of loading everything up to trick Win10 for better GPL performance has me checking everything.

Still, think maybe the CPU needs more memory. That's my new theory.

Onward thru the tweaking/guessing upgrading fog.

Mid-morning Edit: For test number two raised supersampling to 8xsupersampling and picked up 6fps at back of grid and before the skybridge coming up to Gardia Urbana. That was only change, so guess that did it?

Amazing.

All the best everyone
:)

Edited by John Woods, Nov 26 2020 - 10:02 AM.





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