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Das System Mercedes


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#1 Reco21

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Posted Feb 20 2020 - 04:37 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=U_uKHNJLSQs

#2 D_J

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Posted Feb 21 2020 - 01:14 AM

I find it hard to grasp that this can be legal. This is active toe. That means you wont have to choose setting for this as you can have it both ways in the races. FIA dropped the ball on this one and I hope it gets banned before the season starts.

#3 webfoot

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Posted Feb 21 2020 - 02:53 AM

My first ever "wheel" for sim racing was one of these....
Attached File  s-l300.jpg   8.75K   19 downloads

Who knew it was configured with features ready for the 2020 Mercedes F1!

Edited by webfoot, Feb 21 2020 - 02:53 AM.


#4 Reco21

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Posted Feb 21 2020 - 01:54 PM

After all this controversy with this system. The FIA allowed the use of this system for all teams, but they will only use it during 2020. From 2021 it will be banned.

#5 twinpotter

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Posted Feb 21 2020 - 02:34 PM

Clever indeed but frustrating for other teams. As been said here already, it will be banned for next year. But is it another form of something like break bias on the fly and infact all of the other on the fly devices they employ, such as engine modes and diff settings?

Already some other teams are stating it contravenes the ride height rules. Due to the tyre patch affect and it's boost for keeping the front tyres warm and that it also instantly lowers the ride height? Why they can't ban it now, instead of letting it go for one season, is really beyond me. I'm not sure though if the jury's still out on this, or whether it's been decided to let Mercedes keep it. I know the FIA as initial stated it's okay, after Mercedes forewarned them of their development before preseason testing. I truly think there's more to come on this, including maybe some protest.

If it wasn't nailed on already, you might as well not bother with watching this season, and just hand both trophies over to Mercedes immediately.

TP:

Edited by twinpotter, Feb 21 2020 - 02:50 PM.


#6 Michkov

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Posted Feb 21 2020 - 03:23 PM

Having read through the rules I cant see how this isn't prohibited, so credit to the engineers that came up with the system. This is exactly what I'm missing in F1 these days, ingenious exploitations of the rules. Quite sad to see so many calling for an outright ban, seems to me that no one wants to put in the work to catch up to a rival team anymore instead just legalize the invention away. I have to wonder if it was Haas that came up with that system people would be calling for a ban on such a system?

View PostD_J, on Feb 21 2020 - 01:14 AM, said:

I find it hard to grasp that this can be legal. This is active toe. That means you wont have to choose setting for this as you can have it both ways in the races. FIA dropped the ball on this one and I hope it gets banned before the season starts.

Because it doesn't change the static toe, it's a steering input. Pulling back on the wheel steers the wheels in opposite directions. And there is no rule that says the steering wheel must have one degree of freedom only either.

#7 twinpotter

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Posted Feb 21 2020 - 03:45 PM

Also it's done manualy by the driver and not by a mechanical driven system. Hence it could stay. I agree Michkov, it's up to other teams to catch up and it's exciting to see inovation.

Mercedes not only have this but a clever design of space by the rear wheels, creating a better designed suspension to increase more rear downforce. They are simply pushing the envelope further.

It should be also interesting to see Red Bulls front bulk head design improving  better downforce and handling too.

We shall see. Let's hope other teams catch up and we avoid a one horse Mercedes season or the constant Noah's ark Grid start.

TP:

Edited by twinpotter, Feb 21 2020 - 03:49 PM.


#8 Brocky05

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Posted Feb 21 2020 - 10:18 PM

i always thought that f1 was about pushin the tech and even the rules

so i say good on em

View Posttwinpotter, on Feb 21 2020 - 02:34 PM, said:

Already some other teams are stating it contravenes the ride height rules. Due to the tyre patch affect and it's boost for keeping the front tyres warm and that it also instantly lowers the ride height?

TP:
if it lowers the ride height the all they have to do is rise the height by a few mm or just make sure its set at the highest lvl when it goes in for inspection

Edited by Brocky05, Feb 21 2020 - 10:19 PM.


#9 jgf

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Posted Feb 22 2020 - 12:21 AM

What ratio of technology vs human input do you want?  About thirty years ago the F1 teams toyed with active suspension, active aero, variable valve timing, etc. ...and the jokes flew that soon you would no longer need a driver - just an onboard computer controlling all aspects of the car from a custom program for each track.  And the F1 powers that be watched for a couple of seasons then outlawed all those innovations.

At the other extreme is NASCARE, who didn't "discover" fuel injection til the 21st century.

But a true "manufacturers' championship" would be a no-holds-barred technology parade, with each teams' concept of the automobile and rules controlled by identical computers and programs.  While a true "drivers' championship" would be the opposite - a spec racer series with identical cars and the major variable being the drivers' abilities.  Trying to run both concurrently will mean constant vacillation between the two.

#10 Cookie

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Posted Feb 22 2020 - 07:56 AM

on a sidenote
for us germans "Das System Mercedes" means "the Mercedes system"

wich means

Keep producing big SUVs and dirty Diesel cars
and not giving any cent to the screwed german Diesel clients,
force people to get their software updates that make the cars even worse...

They can do it as Merkel protects the autoindustrie against the customers!

Edited by Cookie, Feb 22 2020 - 08:00 AM.


#11 jgf

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Posted Feb 22 2020 - 02:10 PM

"Keep producing big SUVs..."  Reminds me of the US forty years ago.  When sales of Japanese cars was on the rise because the public obviously wanted smaller, more fuel efficient, cars, US manufacturers continued to churn out 2-ton land barges with 7 litre engines ...then lobbied congress for high tariffs on imported cars rather than retool and build what we wanted.




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