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Historical Circuit Resources?


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#41 one2fwee

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Posted Jan 10 2020 - 06:46 PM

Strange, are you sure that you found that data on https://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/ ?
All i can find under aerial photo single frames are ones dating back to 1956 at the earliest.



This has full coverage of the Wallonie region of belgium but only shows 1971 and another presumably made up of different years between 1994 and 2001:
http://geoportail.wa...iel/orthophotos
It is not great quality and spa is overexposed and super low res but better than nothing and it is interesting!
It has most circuits. For Nivelles-Baulers you actually need to use the 94-01 data because the 71 image hasn't been fully constructed yet.

Interesting things with spa are that i didn't realise that they moved the apex of la source about 14 metres or so further in when they rebuilt the circuit (or at least by the time of the 94-01 imagery. It also looks like the straight before it used to be more where the pits there are but that part could be image distortion or misalignment, i am less confident there.
Also, i didn't know that they had changed the "straight" after la source between 94-01 and today. In fact i would guess they probably did it in 07.


For wales, I found Rhydymwyn layout still existing in 1969 - terrible quality but at least something. Wish they had the high res single frames available for download - maybe they do and i just didn't find them:
http://aerialphotos....z=16&b=0&a=1969

See here for pics and a programme showing the layout: https://daveriley.we.../rhydymwyn.html


I couldn't place Fairwood. The airfield is easy to find but placing that layout on it was difficult.

Edited by one2fwee, Jan 10 2020 - 06:48 PM.


#42 Mark Lane

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Posted Jan 11 2020 - 08:40 AM

View Postone2fwee, on Jan 10 2020 - 06:46 PM, said:

For wales, I found Rhydymwyn layout still existing in 1969 - terrible quality but at least something. Wish they had the high res single frames available for download - maybe they do and i just didn't find them:
http://aerialphotos....z=16&b=0&a=1969

I couldn't place Fairwood. The airfield is easy to find but placing that layout on it was difficult.

Is that the chemical weapons plant right next to it?

#43 one2fwee

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Posted Jan 11 2020 - 11:44 AM

So it seems :/ Awfully creepy
https://www.subbrit....n-valley-works/
http://ww2talk.com/i...-factory.36292/
https://www.atomiche...yn-valley-works
https://www.dailymai...ld-War-Two.html

In regards to racing:
https://forums.autos...he-era-special/
http://www.wirral100...100history.html
Sadly the pictures from that site seem lost.


Another one for Wales is Eppynt. Apparently they are starting road racing again there. I heard people say it was enabled by the ban on closing public roads in the uk (excluding northern ireland and IOM which had their own exceptions) being lifted in 2016.
When was road racing banned in England? Or has it always been? I guess things like Oliver's Mount are allowed because they are parks. But they still have public roads so I don't really get it. In fact there was that F3 racing on the streets of Birmingham too, so I don't really get it.

Eppynt 1969:
http://aerialphotos....z=14&b=0&a=1969
http://www.the-fastl...gdom/index.html

If you look today on google earth, not a lot has changed - in fact it is more dangerous to race there today than then - they have areas with trees now!

Apparently racing was in the early 50s, with a revival in 1965: https://www.motorspo...-eppynt-revived

Edited by one2fwee, Jan 11 2020 - 11:47 AM.


#44 webfoot

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Posted Jan 11 2020 - 01:16 PM

View Postone2fwee, on Jan 11 2020 - 11:44 AM, said:

Another one for Wales is Eppynt. Apparently they are starting road racing again there. I heard people say it was enabled by the ban on closing public roads in the uk (excluding northern ireland and IOM which had their own exceptions) being lifted in 2016.
When was road racing banned in England? Or has it always been? I guess things like Oliver's Mount are allowed because they are parks. But they still have public roads so I don't really get it. In fact there was that F3 racing on the streets of Birmingham too, so I don't really get it.


Previously for England and Wales (and Scotland?), so excluding NI and IOM, racing on public roads was illegal.  I guess Olivers Mount was ok as it is in a park and not Public Highway and can be closed for an event.  Similarly my local park (Sutton Park) was used for an RAC Rally stage for many years.

To close UK Public Highway for a race track would need a special act of parliament to close the roads and allow a legal race.  This made it almost totally impractical to do.  Birmingham Super Prix took many (18?) years campaigning to achieve a special act of parliament necessary, specific for that track to finally hold a race.

In 2016 a more generic act of parliament was put through which stopped the need for central legislation to be created for each road closure and gave a legal framework for road closures for racing.  Now it is up to the Motor Sport Authority to sanction, with agreement from local government, police etc.

Edited by webfoot, Jan 11 2020 - 03:15 PM.


#45 one2fwee

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Posted Jan 11 2020 - 02:59 PM

Ah okay, do you know when this was introduced? I have a feeling it was very early on which is why we never really saw road racing in England, Scotland or Wales. Perhaps Eppynt was another loophole because part of it was military land and the other part a normal road?

Here is something a bit different but i found you can make a free account at britainfromabove to view their oblique aerial photos in better quality.
Here is the melbourne loop and part of the back straight from donington park in 1946, after it had been converted into a place to store (american?) military vehicles after the war:

https://i.imgur.com/Wu4NLvd.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BPZEUBq.jpg

Not great shots but better than nothing :)

#46 webfoot

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Posted Jan 11 2020 - 03:27 PM

The original ban of course led to Brooklands, a closed course on private land, the first purpose built race track in the world. Needed to allow racing in mainland UK.

When Brooklands was built in 1906-1907 the speed limit in the UK was 20mph, set in 1903.  I think this would legally apply to any motor race on public roads.  Prior  to that the speed limit was 12mph (1896) and before then as low as 4mph (1865) and 10mph (1861).  The 1865 legislation also required a man walking ahead of the car waving a red flag (removed in 1878).

So you could say it was from the very start of the automobile.



As for Donington Park, it was used was used for military vehicle storage from early on, and throughout the WW2.  So definitely British, not sure about American vehicles.  The War Office used Donington up to 1956.

Edited by webfoot, Jan 11 2020 - 03:37 PM.


#47 Michkov

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Posted Jan 11 2020 - 05:26 PM

View Postone2fwee, on Jan 10 2020 - 06:46 PM, said:

Strange, are you sure that you found that data on https://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/ ?
All i can find under aerial photo single frames are ones dating back to 1956 at the earliest.

Yes, you are right. I've misremembered my sources. I found it here http://mil.library.u...s/FrameFinder/. Good coverage for California, at least between, San Diego and LA, I have to venture farther north yet.

To be specific it's pictures
http://mil.library.u...filed_by=C-3060
http://mil.library.u...led_by=AXJ-1938

View Postone2fwee, on Jan 11 2020 - 11:44 AM, said:


Last I heard the Eppynt revival went bankrupt, I forgot to set the status to non active on the database. Shame looked like an exciting circuit.

#48 one2fwee

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Posted Jan 14 2020 - 06:44 PM

Oh thanks i found them by looking at the flight numbers in your links. Strangely, you don't seem to be able to get to the photos from the actual links themselves, or at least i couldn't find a way.

That's a shame about Eppynt. At least oliver's mount was saved. The problem with road racing footage being shown on eurosport here though is they only show highlights, not the whole race, so you can't get much of a feel for a race, i don't really like watching highlights for this reason. Even for motorcycle world endurance on eurosport, they show only part of it - for that you can get away with missing parts but they don't even show the start of the race and the first hours or so, so it ends up feeling pointless to bother watching.



So, i have been looking for the netherlands and it is hard to find stuff, it seems most of their data is hidden away and that that is available is expensive.

Covered here is Zandvoort, both the street and normal ciruits.

First, the zandvoort street circuit of 1939:
I don't know when these oblique aerials were taken exactly, i can't see it listed.
This is before all of the roads for the circuit began construction:
https://noord-hollan...&rows=1&page=10

Then, as they had started to be constructed:
https://noord-hollan...o&rows=1&page=1
https://noord-hollan...o&rows=1&page=7

There might be more of use here, i don't know: https://noord-hollandsarchief.nl/
Information about it:
https://www.wur.nl/e...photographs.htm
https://www.wur.nl/e...photographs.htm

Now there is this site that has RAF photos from the war and later in reasonable (but not full quality) scan detail: https://library.wur....y/geoportal/raf
10th of september 44:
https://mapserver.li...ormat=image/png
https://mapserver.li...ormat=image/png
https://mapserver.li...ormat=image/png

18th of september 44:
https://mapserver.li...ormat=image/png

6th of october 44:
https://mapserver.li...ormat=image/png

7th of april 45:
https://mapserver.li...ormat=image/png

As you can see, the old street circuit is fully visible although the turn from Burgemeester van Alphenstraat onto Van Lennepweg may have been changed and it looks like things have been destroyed etc, so it's hard to know exactly how it was in 39 for the races themselves.
One interesting thing that i didn't know that you can clearly see in the photos is that parts of the zandvoort circuit (in fact, a lot of the parts that no longer exist) were constructed by the germans as communication roads in the war.
You can also see the small wood that the circuit ran through in its early days (i don't know if it was late 50s or early 60s it was chopped down).
I don't know if they modified these roads at all when they made the actual circuit but certainly it can't have been a lot.

Now we get onto the site that has the data for sale. It appears students and staff of the university can request scans for €1 each https://www.dotkadata.com/tarieven/ otherwise you must pay extortionate costs.
The previews you can view are apparently only 150dpi and show you little. Purchasing will give you access to scans of 1200dpi but even this seems quite low in comparison to other sites i have seen. Still, probably a lot more usable. Anyway, on to the photos. You're best off right clicking on them, then pressing view image and zooming in manually.

1938:
https://originals.do...m/#!1&id=301313
https://originals.do...m/#!1&id=301314
As you can (barely) see, some of the roads for the street circuit do not appear to be built yet. Although it could be the low resolution.

1958:
https://originals.do...m/#!1&id=386879

As you can see, the wood remains, as do the football pitches or whatever they are.

1967:
https://originals.do...m/#!1&id=388256
https://originals.do...m/#!1&id=388241

1977:
https://originals.do...m/#!1&id=367116

1989:
https://originals.do...m/#!1&id=329897
https://originals.do...m/#!1&id=329937


Finally, here are some oblique aerials of the circuit from 1973:
https://www.aerophot...ch_in_gallery=1


I can do assen if you like and any other dutch circuits anyone is interested please say. However for assen, only dotka data is available that i have found so far, so you won't be able to see much.

There is this interactive map of Flevoland and some surrounding areas that has different parts for a few decades, however i am not aware of circuits in the region:
https://kaart.flevoland.nl/luchtfoto/


I wonder what the dutch equivalent of the ordnance survey is and what archive of aerial photos they have.

#49 Pavel

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Posted Jan 15 2020 - 12:12 AM

Wow, great research. Thanks!
I'm interested to see aerial views of Silverstone, Kyalami and St.Jovite from 60's too.

 one2fwee, on Jan 14 2020 - 06:44 PM, said:

One interesting thing that i didn't know that you can clearly see in the photos is that parts of the zandvoort circuit (in fact, a lot of the parts that no longer exist) were constructed by the germans as communication roads in the war.
You can also see the small wood that the circuit ran through in its early days (i don't know if it was late 50s or early 60s it was chopped down).
I don't know if they modified these roads at all when they made the actual circuit but certainly it can't have been a lot.

I've noticed that many circuits in the 50's and 60's when were constructed utilized(based) on roads that run through the aeria. Good examples are most tracks in US. Laguna Seca, Road America, Portland - all were build by connecting various rural roads.

I think wood at Zandvoort was cut down in 1964.

#50 Michkov

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Posted Jan 15 2020 - 03:54 PM

Those are great one2fwee. IIRC the urban legend around Zandvoort is that the crafty Dutch convinced the Germans to build them a racetrack during WW2. I believe the roads where build as part of the fortifications against the allies, bit like Wegberg back in Germany, which was a military ringroad initially.

Road America was a copy paste on a clean sheet of paper as far as I recall Pavel, Portland was city streets. The place where PIR is used to be a town called Vanport, got washed away in a flood and the empty streets attracted the local hot rodders afterwards. Rather than shutting it down they transformed it into a racetrack. Sadly I got no knowledge about Laguna.

I have this aerial of Silverstone. Sometime after the first races in 1948 since the groove is clearly visible. That's the oldest I found, next one is between 86 and 91.
Attached File  40.png   2.32MB   19 downloads

#51 Pavel

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Posted Jan 15 2020 - 11:45 PM

View PostMichkov, on Jan 15 2020 - 03:54 PM, said:

Road America was a copy paste on a clean sheet of paper as far as I recall Pavel, Portland was city streets. The place where PIR is used to be a town called Vanport, got washed away in a flood and the empty streets attracted the local hot rodders afterwards. Rather than shutting it down they transformed it into a racetrack.
Road America utilised one road for sure that run from exit of Carusel and went further straight at Canada corner (is still visible). You can see it on old maps here http://www.scharch.o...Development.htm

Original Portland track config used old street roads. But then track was modified. More info here https://supercarsunl...ory/history.htm

#52 one2fwee

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Posted Jan 16 2020 - 05:55 PM

You can actually see that the Dutch themselves had started building the roads in 38, the bit through the wood for example.
It is hard to see exactly how much was built during the war, as the dune boundaries and things give hints but the scan quality that they have provided for the aerial isn't high enough to see.
For example, there are hints for the right hander of Hondenvlak but no actual road as far as i can see.
The same for the last corner, you can fill it in with your mind but Bos Ult doesn't look fully there, but you can see some preparation work on the exit of it and the main straight has been done.


In regards to Assen, i had a look again anyway. Sorry for the low resolution.

1957:
https://originals.do...m/#!1&id=385871
https://originals.do...m/#!1&id=385851

1968:
https://originals.do...m/#!1&id=390780

1978:
https://originals.do...m/#!1&id=413005

Might post more later and have a look at the older layout roads.
You can really see how they started to completely ruin it in the early 2000s.


In returning to Belgium, I found a site for flanders data, so here is Zolder in 1971:
https://www.geopunt....16fb0665b07012c
The site also has a 79-90 image which appears to be taken from 85 or 86, as they are in the process of changing the track to the 86 configuration.

Again, like the other site for Belgium, the quality of the scans is not the best, but at least it gives you an idea. Of course they will have better imagery somewhere, perhaps not online.

I also found this site for Belgium though it doesn't appear to work for me http://www.cartesius...artesiusPortal/




In regards to south africa, i found this site but it doesn't appear to work and i think you'd probably have to pay a lot anyway:
http://www.ngi.gov.z...raphy-1926-2008

For england, i've never found anything really, it seems very hoarded - only commercial sites that have hardly any data uploaded and barely provide previews.
That said google earth has silverstone from 1945 or 46.

I have a silverstone pic from the mid 70s in really low quality (us spy satellite pic) where it still has all the little veins with turning circle things (i have no idea what they are called) around the edge of the circuit and looks very much like an airfield still.

Edited by one2fwee, Jan 16 2020 - 05:56 PM.


#53 one2fwee

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Posted Jan 19 2020 - 05:53 PM

Here is Roskilde Ring 1960:
https://webkort.rosk...82&maprotation=

Also available for 1967 in lower quality.

#54 one2fwee

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Posted Jan 22 2020 - 12:51 AM

East London, 1938:
http://cdngiportal.c...4_074_14689.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_074_14688.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_074_14687.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_074_14686.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_074_14685.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_074_14684.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_073_14637.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_073_14636.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_073_14635.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_073_14634.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_073_14633.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_073_14632.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_073_14631.jpg

https://www.youtube....h?v=MVGL-VOV1Sg
https://www.youtube....h?v=lXpcheaX0b8

Now sure what the kink on the west-most straight between Galpin's and Fort Grey is about here, it is completely straight in the aerials.
http://theracingline...George1934.html
https://showme.co.za...06/pgeorge2.jpg

Edited by one2fwee, Jan 22 2020 - 03:17 AM.


#55 one2fwee

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Posted Jan 22 2020 - 03:15 AM

Gunner's circle 58:
http://cdngiportal.c...4_004_07019.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_004_07018.jpg
68 (after racing is over):
http://cdngiportal.c...0_008_00253.jpg

Not sure what Butt's Bend and Railway Bend are about, they don't appear to exist :s Unless you need a zoomed in view or an earlier aerial and they were gone by 58?
http://theracingline...nersCircle.html

Killarney:
53:
http://cdngiportal.c...5_003_05997.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...5_003_05998.jpg

58:
http://cdngiportal.c...4_003_07078.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_003_07079.jpg

66:
http://cdngiportal.c...1_007_00189.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...1_007_00190.jpg

68:
http://cdngiportal.c...0_005_00625.jpg


Does anyone know where Eerste River is? I can't find it anywhere:
http://www.silhouet....ste_rivier.html

Kyalami:
64:
http://cdngiportal.c...6_010_08253.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...6_010_08254.jpg

68:
http://cdngiportal.c...3_016_07607.jpg

72:
http://cdngiportal.c...1_001_01521.jpg


85:
http://cdngiportal.c...2_014_02255.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...2_014_02256.jpg

96 (note you can see small portions of the barbecue, leeukop and the straight:
http://cdngiportal.c...9_031_00051.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...9_031_00050.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...9_031_00052.jpg


Sorry for the quality of these, they only offer low quality versions. I think for higher res you have to purchase.
If you're wondering how the track was different before it was widened, these low quality scans won't tell you. Higher quality of the same images might but i don't know if the flights are low enough altitude / in focus / good enough film grain to do that.
Annoyingly, they have blocked viewing of some images like the close ones from 68.
It's interesting that the esses appear to be the same as today (obviously the post 67 version) but the straight after them carries on straight a tiny bit (the modern one kinks right a bit) before going into leeukop. So all the maps that show the esses tighter than today (ignoring widening) appear to be wrong.

Note to anyone using this data - i overlaid cropped versions over the modern circuit in google earth to map it over the top and the images are not that orthographic so don't match up completely. Once you get one part in alignment and size, another part goes out. You'll want to warp them and get them to match yourself. Same for most aerials mind you!

Edited by one2fwee, Jan 22 2020 - 03:26 AM.


#56 Michkov

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Posted Jan 22 2020 - 04:24 PM

Is the South African portal working for you? I only get error messages when trying to find a search form page.

 one2fwee, on Jan 22 2020 - 03:15 AM, said:

Not sure what Butt's Bend and Railway Bend are about, they don't appear to exist :s Unless you need a zoomed in view or an earlier aerial and they were gone by 58?

Railway bend seems to be there. There is a junction just in front of the bridge that leasds to a road that rejoins the wide road after the railroad tracks. It least in the first two pictures.

Quote

Does anyone know where Eerste River is? I can't find it anywhere:
http://www.silhouet....ste_rivier.html

Eerste River seems to be a suburb of Cape Town. The airfield it'self seems to have been converted into either a pitmine or housing.

https://www.google.c...8.7393068?hl=en
https://en.wikipedia...r,_Western_Cape

#57 one2fwee

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Posted Jan 22 2020 - 09:27 PM

 Michkov, on Jan 22 2020 - 04:24 PM, said:

Is the South African portal working for you? I only get error messages when trying to find a search form page.

Yes you just go here. It's a bit awkward to use though.
http://www.cdngiport...za/cdngiportal/

 Michkov, on Jan 22 2020 - 04:24 PM, said:

Railway bend seems to be there. There is a junction just in front of the bridge that leasds to a road that rejoins the wide road after the railroad tracks. It least in the first two pictures.

Ah you're right. The picture is from 58 and the smooth "oval" part of the road looks like it has been newly constructed - maybe they had finished racing there by the time the picture was taken. You can just about see the older road that was part of the circuit, like you say!

 Michkov, on Jan 22 2020 - 04:24 PM, said:

Eerste River seems to be a suburb of Cape Town. The airfield it'self seems to have been converted into either a pitmine or housing.

https://www.google.c...8.7393068?hl=en
https://en.wikipedia...r,_Western_Cape

Yes, i've looked there, sadly can't see anything
53 for example:
http://cdngiportal.c...5_007_06074.jpg



Kelvin / Sandton
http://www.theherita...tten-race-track
1938:
http://cdngiportal.c...3_006_05964.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...3_006_05965.jpg
Still there by 1941:
http://cdngiportal.c...2_006_57426.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...2_005_57401.jpg
By 51, it's being built on and you can barely see it:
http://cdngiportal.c...9_001_54134.jpg


Goldfields / Welkom
91:
http://cdngiportal.c...4_018_00601.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_018_00600.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_018_00599.jpg
2000 (demolished but old layout roads still partially visible and in more detail):
http://cdngiportal.c...0_005_00434.jpg


Westmead
1968:
http://cdngiportal.c...5_010_08091.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...5_010_08092.jpg


Alexandra Park
(pre-races) 1937:
http://cdngiportal.c...B_016_05227.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...B_016_05228.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...5_010_08091.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...B_017_39518.jpg

1944:
http://cdngiportal.c...0_041_12771.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...0_041_12772.jpg

68:
http://cdngiportal.c...4_003_07329.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_003_07330.jpg

Roy Hesketh / Pietermaritzburg
1967:
http://cdngiportal.c...3_009_06362.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...3_009_06363.jpg

68:
http://cdngiportal.c...4_003_07331.jpg

89 partial demolition:
http://cdngiportal.c...3_009_01989.jpg


Zwartkops
64:
http://cdngiportal.c...6_006_08438.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...6_006_08439.jpg

69 (partial, closer):
http://cdngiportal.c...3_010_07054.jpg

85:
http://cdngiportal.c...2_012_01702.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...2_012_01701.jpg

Edited by one2fwee, Jan 22 2020 - 09:28 PM.


#58 Pavel

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Posted Jan 23 2020 - 01:30 AM

Thank you for all those pictures! Now I need time to take a close look into them.

#59 one2fwee

one2fwee

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Posted Jan 23 2020 - 04:26 PM

Aldo Scribante
76:
http://cdngiportal.c...8_010_00285.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...8_010_00284.jpg

78:
http://cdngiportal.c...2_016_02516.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...2_011_03857.jpg

96:
http://cdngiportal.c...1_008_00322.jpg

Kyalami (some closer shots)
70:
http://cdngiportal.c...4_002_00472.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_002_00473.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...4_002_00476.jpg

77:
http://cdngiportal.c...8_003_00149.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...8_003_00151.jpg
http://cdngiportal.c...8_003_00152.jpg


Varano
1971:
https://www.igmi.org...a-1484601669.57

Syracuse
1955:
https://www.igmi.org...a-1484591535.97

1966:
https://www.igmi.org...a-1484591547.15

Modena (partial, only uncensored photo they have of it).
1981:
https://www.igmi.org...a-1484604461.03


Tripoli
1942:
https://ncap.org.uk/...000-029-646.jpg
Very small portion of west-most part of the circuit

Laguna Seca (better quality)
61:
https://i.imgur.com/mmxwXkb.jpg
71:
https://i.imgur.com/7RuQD3S.jpg


Silverstone
77:
https://i.imgur.com/UNj7axF.jpg
Terrible quality but shows a bit how it compares to the 40s images.

Wegberg
74:
https://i.imgur.com/Z6q2oO1.jpg
Again, bad quality but shows layout and roads had not yet been changed by this point

Rostock
https://www.gaia-mv....EXf7fYHc4COlA==

https://www.motorren...r-osthafenkurs/
https://i2.wp.com/ww..._size/102_1.JPG

1953:
https://i.imgur.com/YfGmcq8.jpg
The roads have changed quite a bit.


Schottenring
Some time between 52 and 67:
http://www.geoportal...rce=wmc&id=2217
http://www.geoportal...n.html?WMC=2217
I don't know how to link to the location directly, just search for it yourself.

Note how the roads in the Schotten part of the track have changed dramatically (as well as the hairpin and things at the very north).

Edited by one2fwee, Jan 23 2020 - 04:29 PM.


#60 Michkov

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Posted Jan 23 2020 - 05:32 PM

Well the SA site is timing out on me, which oddly yesterday it didn't. Still good to know these exist.




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