Jump to content


- - - - -

Advice On New Screen ?


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 paul_v

paul_v

    Bruce McLaren

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Interests:grand prix legends and mods
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jun 19 2019 - 10:23 AM

Hi all

I have been using for GPL my 24" Asus flat screen monitor.

It's now time for a change. The Asus is excellent but will be relegated to general desktop PC duties.

My question is a simple one.

Would most of you choose a large flat screen for GPL or a large CURVED screen.

Or finally a triple screen setup.

Only other thing my imagination thought might be different is a curved centre screen with 2 flat screens either side.

All ideas and experience of various screen setups would be very interesting.

Thanks in advance. Paul

#2 paul skingley

paul skingley

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 550 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jun 20 2019 - 05:10 AM

If you plan to run GPL at 36 fps and you have nVidia graphics card, get  G-Sync monitor.


Paul

#3 one2fwee

one2fwee

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 338 posts
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Jun 20 2019 - 06:31 AM

Try and get as large a screen as you can, and put it as close as comfortable to allow for the biggest realistic FOV.

The curved screens are pointless because the radius on them is so large (the curve so slight) that they would have to be extremely far away to put you in the "centre" of the circle, making your FOV tiny.
Also no games actually support curved rendering. I think there is software for projectors that renders multiple viewports and stitches them together to fake it, but i'm not sure. Or it might just do it with a single view port. Either way it is probably only hacked in support on a game by game basis and probably wouldn't work with gpl.

In terms of free-sync or g-sync, just get free sync, it is far cheaper and with g-sync you are just paying nvidia a premium for no reason. Amd cards work fine with free-sync and nvidia have also relunctantly added support for free-sync now too (although you might need to force enable it in the options).
Of course if your gpu is old anyway, it might not support either.

One of the biggest important factors for racing is input lag, so try and research about that too.

All in all, they are very overpriced compared to tvs but tvs tend to have no adaptive sync support and worse input lag even in game mode. It's hard to know. Unless you get an input lag tester and can test a unit before you buy it, you are at the mercy of reviews.

#4 paul_v

paul_v

    Bruce McLaren

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Interests:grand prix legends and mods
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jun 20 2019 - 09:41 AM

View Postpaul skingley, on Jun 20 2019 - 05:10 AM, said:

If you plan to run GPL at 36 fps and you have nVidia graphics card, get  G-Sync monitor


Paul


Thanks Paul will bear that in mind.

Edited by paul_v, Jun 20 2019 - 09:42 AM.


#5 paul_v

paul_v

    Bruce McLaren

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Interests:grand prix legends and mods
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jun 20 2019 - 09:49 AM


One2fwee

Thanks for the very interesting and helpful info.

I'm really pleased with your thoughts on a curved monitor. I am now happy to remove that from my list of choices.

I'm hoping I would find a large flat screen as immersive as a triple setup. Do you or anyone else have experience of a triple setup. I'm intrigued as to what they are like and if they are worth the cost.???

I love GPL and want to enjoy it at it's best.

Paul

#6 Pedro

Pedro

    Pedro

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,429 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hillegom - The Netherlands
  • Interests:Grand Prix Legends
    Scuba-diving
    Airplanes
    Life
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jun 20 2019 - 01:51 PM

Type "Triple" in the search bar Paul.

Interesting stuff to read.

#7 Millennium

Millennium

    Roger Williamson

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 457 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Interests:GPL
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jun 20 2019 - 03:32 PM

I can also recommend looking for a 144hz monitor, as that matches perfectly with the 36 fps in GPL (exactly 4 refreshes of the screen per frame). It won't be a huge difference but I did notice an improvement when coming from a 60hz display.

Gsync or Freesync will also do the job as Paul said. But make sure the sync range of the screen is still active a 36hz. A lot of monitors don't support sync at such low refreshrates, making gsync or freesync possibly useless for GPL.

Edited by Millennium, Jun 21 2019 - 02:26 AM.


#8 one2fwee

one2fwee

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 338 posts
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Jun 21 2019 - 07:40 AM

View Postpaul_v, on Jun 20 2019 - 09:49 AM, said:

I'm hoping I would find a large flat screen as immersive as a triple setup. Do you or anyone else have experience of a triple setup. I'm intrigued as to what they are like and if they are worth the cost.???

If you're only playing GPL then yes, a large flat screen or a projector would be fine as it doesn't support multiple viewports anyway - so even when you are playing with multiple screen, you are actually rendering a single viewport and so the screens should actually be played in a flat plane anyway.
However I have used GPL with triple screens (though unfortunately I don't own any myself) and although "incorrect", angling the side screens didn't cause an issue as those are just periphery anyway - with one viewport the eyepoint (where the screen thinks you are looking at) is in the centre of the middle screen anyway.
As you get further and further away from that eyepoint, you get more and more rectilinear distortion, which is my those 21:9 screens are utterly stupid.

With triple screens, you can have 3 separate viewports and therefore 3 eyepoints, in order to reduce that distortion and give you a much better view of things. This somewhat gets closer to a cylindrical / spherical way of rendering (as i mentioned earlier, talking about curved screens. In fact curved screens would be great if they were designed properly and games supported that kind of rendering. If you wanted to go that route, a projector would probably give you more flexibility though.

If you play other games that do support proper triple screens, then yes, they are a lot better.
Or of course I imagine VR is far better still, but i haven't tried it (and again, gpl doesn't support it).
Whether these things could be hacked into gpl with a dx / opengl wrapper i don't know, but i know it has been done for other games. I think VR was hacked into Richard Burns Rally, but strangely I don't think proper triple screen support was (although it might have been, it has been a long time since i was using that setup so i cannot remember!).

But yes, the cheapest option would probably be a freesync display that has a sync range that 36hz is inside of. Or you could just use the 60fps patch, even though it has drawbacks with ai (i cannot remember exactly what, i think it is in terms of animation but it could be other things too). To be honest, if you just disable v-sync and put up with tearing, like i have done for years, then you don't even need freesync if it's too expensive. Input lag should be one of the highest priorities really too.

Edited by one2fwee, Jun 21 2019 - 07:43 AM.


#9 John Woods

John Woods

    Be Somebody

  • GPLLinks Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Too Much Fun
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jun 21 2019 - 08:19 AM

Using a 98in diagonal projected display, (84in W x 52in H atm), with 1280 x 800 native rez.
This is way too big for GPL graphics.
Great for calibrated 1:1 full scale display.

One pixel is alittle less than 1/16in on the screen.
Not a blurry image though, just big.
Eyes are 5ft from display.

JMO, the size of the display or number of them is not one of the critical factors that make it or break it for Grand Prix Legends.
Not that I have a list, but it would not be near the top.

paul_v if your 24in has reasonable bezels maybe try picking up a couple more similar at a pawn shop?
Would only do this as an experiment to see how you like it, which is what matters most anyway.

Of course, a three projector triple screen properly set up (major effort requiring use of multi-player mode and three cars), would be pretty neat.



:D

Edited by John Woods, Jun 21 2019 - 08:25 AM.


#10 paul skingley

paul skingley

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 550 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jun 21 2019 - 08:36 AM

I do not think G-Sync and free-sync work the same way but I know GPL works great with G-Sync monitor because I have one.
Almost all my sim racing time is with GPL so i can't comment on modern sims and games.

I was never a fan of the 60fps patch so I was looking for an alternative to run run GPL at 36fps. I am a sceptic and not one to believe "all the hype" so I bought a used G-Sync monitor at first.
G-Sync claims to match your monitor refresh rate to the output of your graphics card. As far as I can tell it does exactly that even if the frame rate becomes variable which it sometimes does on my old machine. But despite the frame rate drops I get no stutters or screen tearing.

It is true G-Sync comes at a premium but I am happy with the performance which is all that really matters. So much so that I am now looking for a larger G-Sync monitor.

Good luck with your search.



Paul

#11 one2fwee

one2fwee

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 338 posts
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Jun 21 2019 - 08:47 AM

John the size of display is actually very important as a bigger display allows a bigger realistic field of view at a more comfortable (further away) viewing distance.

For example, with your setup, that would give you a horizontal FOV of about 70 degrees ( 2*tan-1( 84 / (2*60) ), which only gives a vertical FOV of 47 degrees - pretty reasonable but could be wider if you moved it closer.
Can't remember what the default FOV is for GPL though.

One of the biggest problems in driving games, especially those like GPL with no triple screen support, is seeing the apex of tight hairpins! You are basically driving blind with a small fov, it's do-able but tricky.
However a realistic FOV is one of the best improvements you can make to your setup, it will make you a lot more consistent as you will be able to judge size, distance, elevation, speed etc a lot better and more naturally.

#12 John Woods

John Woods

    Be Somebody

  • GPLLinks Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,598 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Too Much Fun
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jun 21 2019 - 10:11 AM

View Postone2fwee, on Jun 21 2019 - 08:47 AM, said:

...a realistic FOV is one of the best improvements you can make to your setup, it will make you a lot more consistent as you will be able to judge size, distance, elevation, speed etc a lot better and more naturally.

That would be number one on my list of critical factors.
In this regard, do agree bigger is better.

Really way way way better?
Not so sure because it is all on the user and their opinion.
Whatever is right for them is best.

Don't think those with less-sized displays are missing out on a whole lot, so that is why suggesting a lower priority on size of display.

Number two: good FFB.
Three: driving position
Four: proper car setup
So size imho is maybe somewhere between five and ten on critical factor ranking.

For a few years used a 32in Panasonic 720p TV with PC input.
Eye distance much closer than now.

Have thought about trying a big screen because they are dirt cheap at pawn shops.
Only because, while smaller, the display would be better quality.
And it would not take up the room like a projector.

Don't think would lose much immersion or virtual space awareness going to smaller size display.
Even though, by smaller I mean cheap 40-50in TV.

one2fwee, thank you for analysis.
IIRC default FOV is 77deg, (or 77.78...something like that).


Remember back when a typical display was 4:3 15in?
1998
:D

Edited by John Woods, Jun 22 2019 - 08:07 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Sim Racing Links