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Convergence Or Divergence?


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#1 mcmirande

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Posted Mar 09 2019 - 06:11 PM

Hello guys!

After years setuping and racing it's still not clear to me if negative toes are convergent or divergent in GPL.

I know that, in general, negative is toe out and positive is toe in... but I always suspected that it was inverted in GPL...

I wonder if some of you know this and could put it clear to me...

Thanks! Marcos

Edited by mcmirande, Mar 09 2019 - 11:35 PM.


#2 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Mar 10 2019 - 08:13 AM

It's not reversed. Positive numbers F&R would be negative toe-in F&R. What makes it confusing is most setups use toe-out in the front.

#3 John Woods

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Posted Mar 10 2019 - 09:08 AM

Test the effect of extreme toe settings on the front with zero toe on the rear.
Very negative corresponds well to expected effect of the car not wanting to turn at all.
Very positive has the opposite effect.


So it seems
:D

#4 Saiph

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Posted Mar 10 2019 - 09:44 AM

If you use GPL Setup Manager, it should make it pretty clear. The setup manager labels the boxes "Toe In, in" on my screen (I use "English" units in inches). So positive values turn the wheels inwards, towards each other, and vice-versa.

At the front, to help the cars turn into corners, I always use some negative toe, which means toe out, which has the front wheels pointing slightly outwards from each other. (Using your terminology I think that would make the front wheels divergent.)

At the rear, to help stability, I always have a small amount of positive toe, which means toe in, which has the rear wheels pointing slightly inwards, towards each other. (Again, using your terminology, I think that makes the rear wheels convergent.)

I hope that's nice and clear. :thumbup:

Edited by Saiph, Mar 10 2019 - 09:47 AM.


#5 mcmirande

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Posted Mar 10 2019 - 10:05 AM

View PostSaiph, on Mar 10 2019 - 09:44 AM, said:

If you use GPL Setup Manager, it should make it pretty clear. The setup manager labels the boxes "Toe In, in" on my screen (I use "English" units in inches). So positive values turn the wheels inwards, towards each other, and vice-versa.

At the front, to help the cars turn into corners, I always use some negative toe, which means toe out, which has the front wheels pointing slightly outwards from each other. (Using your terminology I think that would make the front wheels divergent.)

At the rear, to help stability, I always have a small amount of positive toe, which means toe in, which has the rear wheels pointing slightly inwards, towards each other. (Again, using your terminology, I think that makes the rear wheels convergent.)

I hope that's nice and clear. :thumbup:

Yes, Keith. Thanks to all.

That's what I always use too and took as given.

Cheers. Marcos

#6 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Mar 10 2019 - 10:27 AM

View PostSaiph, on Mar 10 2019 - 09:44 AM, said:

If you use GPL Setup Manager, it should make it pretty clear. The setup manager labels the boxes "Toe In, in" on my screen (I use "English" units in inches). So positive values turn the wheels inwards, towards each other, and vice-versa.

At the front, to help the cars turn into corners, I always use some negative toe, which means toe out, which has the front wheels pointing slightly outwards from each other. (Using your terminology I think that would make the front wheels divergent.)

At the rear, to help stability, I always have a small amount of positive toe, which means toe in, which has the rear wheels pointing slightly inwards, towards each other. (Again, using your terminology, I think that makes the rear wheels convergent.)

I hope that's nice and clear. :thumbup:

The setup menu in GPL says toe-in too. You have to use a negative number to get toe-out. Seems pretty clear. :)

#7 Cookie

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Posted Mar 10 2019 - 11:04 AM

In RL all cars use an Ackermann steering geometry ( https://en.wikipedia...eering_geometry )

Afaik GPL doesn't!

So by using the "toe out" in front it helps to turn in (theoretical)

#8 Robert Fleurke

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Posted Mar 10 2019 - 11:40 AM

Well explained Keith, in general most will use toe out at the front and toe in at the rear. For better turn in and stability.

#9 mcmirande

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Posted Mar 10 2019 - 11:52 AM

Ok, thanks to all

That's the same I thought. I just felt some strange behaviours while testing and the doubt came to me again.

Cheers. Marcos

#10 gliebzeit

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Posted Mar 10 2019 - 02:30 PM

Keith, explains the world.  B)

Yes, a very clear and precise explanation of the "toes".
.
.
.
.
Seriously, a huge thanks!  :)

Edited by gliebzeit, Mar 10 2019 - 02:31 PM.


#11 Saiph

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Posted Mar 10 2019 - 03:04 PM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Mar 10 2019 - 10:27 AM, said:

The setup menu in GPL says toe-in too. You have to use a negative number to get toe-out. Seems pretty clear. :)

Yes, you're quite right Pete. I always use GPL Setup Manager these days as it's so good. It's ages since I saw the GPL in-game setup screen, so i couldn't remember what the text was!

Thanks everyone for your kind comments.

#12 mcmirande

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Posted Mar 10 2019 - 03:29 PM

Well... I'm happy to put this item into consideration.

But I just did some tests and it's now more evident to me that all of you (and myself before this post) are/were right, hehe.

Toes are exactly as explained above ;)

Cheers and thanks! Marcos.




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