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Slowing The Ai In 67's


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#1 twinpotter

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Posted Dec 10 2018 - 12:46 PM

I know that it's been asked before and probably by me. So apologies for asking again.

Can someone give me a qiuck synopsis of how to slow down the Ai in gpl 67. I'm not a fast driver and believe that gem can only alter the mod cars speed and not the 67's.

I would just like to be a bit more competitive at the back of the field, or maybe in midfield.

Thanks all :up:

TP:

#2 Lee200

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Posted Dec 10 2018 - 01:14 PM

That is correct, GEM+ can only adjust the mod AI speed.

Open the gpla67.ini file and edit the "gpl_override=" line to something greater that 1.00.  Try 1.10 to start.

#3 twinpotter

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Posted Dec 10 2018 - 02:18 PM

Thanks Lee πŸ‘
Will expirement on that. Is it a good thing to go up by increments of 5 or 10. Or up to me to test πŸ€”

Also is it worth editing the hype and global hype in driver ini. Also if I do the latter is it the normal driver ini or specific game ini aka drvc67 πŸ€”

Thanks again πŸ˜πŸ‘

TP:

Edited by twinpotter, Dec 10 2018 - 02:19 PM.


#4 orlinos

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Posted Dec 10 2018 - 04:18 PM

View Posttwinpotter, on Dec 10 2018 - 02:18 PM, said:

Thanks Lee πŸ‘
Will expirement on that. Is it a good thing to go up by increments of 5 or 10. Or up to me to test πŸ€”

Also is it worth editing the hype and global hype in driver ini. Also if I do the latter is it the normal driver ini or specific game ini aka drvc67 πŸ€”

Thanks again πŸ˜πŸ‘

TP:

Driver.ini is for gpl.exe (vanilla), which you are only using as basis for GEM. Drvc67.ini is for 1.3 patch (still '67 cars). You want to edit drvc67.ini
http://srmz.net/inde...&id=1&record=14

I find it much better to set global_hype_scaling = 1 for all drivers. That means ALL AI drivers properly scale with npt_override changes (in gpla67.ini). That should keep all drivers closer. With original global_hype_scaling Jim Clark will still leave everyone behind, while other driver will slow down to a crawl. That will make you drive mostly alone, with less exciting racing.

You might also try the AI Speed Control Patch.  "Lowers the AI corner speed to 90% of the track .lp goal speed to better match their top speed".
http://gplmotorworks.gplworld.de/ ===> http://gplmotorworks...ol Patch v2.zip

Personally, I extracted the v2.1 version from Legends Of GPL mod. It seems to slow the AI a bit less, than the v2.0 version. Mind you, since slowing the AI in corners obviously makes them slower overall, you have to then lower the npt a bit to keep overall times better for AI.

For example: as a beginner I used to race '65 mod with npt=1.05. At some point I was able to be 1st-3rd in most of the '65 season shorter tracks.
Now, I race with v2.1 Speed Patch installed and npt=1.0. The AI get the same lap times overall as with npt 1.02 and no speed patch - but they are easier to follow in corners. And I maybe reach 6th place at best. Fun!

Some old post explaining global hype scaling:

View PostLee200, on Jan 06 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

John, FloP is correct.

The core.ini file has no effect on the AI.  Apparently, someone has added a dlong_speed_adj_coeff line to your core.ini, but the core.ini file is the wrong place for this setting; it should go in the track's track.ini file.

Everything that Alison said is basically correct. She mentions that changing the npt_override setting has very little effect on the fastest drivers such as Clark.  That's because when she wrote that the original driver.ini file had a very low global_hype_scaling setting for Clark which made him insensitive to changes in npt_override.  That's why I always recommend to use a global_hype_scaling setting of 1.00 for all drivers so that changes in npt_override will affect all drivers the same.

If you set npt_override to 0 (which was the original default setting), then the AI do learn from your lap times and change their speeds accordingly and probably put you somewhere in the middle of the field.  Until you have driven a sufficient number of laps though (which I believe is 10), they use an npt_override setting of 1.20.

To get back to Pete's original request, the only way I know how to control the AI like he wants is to come up with a combination of npt_override and driver hype settings that works.   That's because he wants to precisely control the fastest AND the slowest driver.  :wave:


#5 twinpotter

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Posted Dec 10 2018 - 04:28 PM

Thanks Orlinos. A lot to digest, but all good stuff.

What I've done in the drvc67 driver ini, is edit all the hype and global hype with reference to an ai tweak (slow) from Alison Hine. Copied originals from 1.08 installer, so can always go back to default. Might do that first, then try Lee's idea and see what happens. Then to your tips.

In the Al speed control, I have that (XML?) But when I put it in gem and tick. The game won't start from gem and I get an error.

On another note I'm also getting an hanging of the game to desktop, when I come out of training or race (sounds in background) So I have to, forgot name now, system manager ? Close programme, but as soon as I do the game comes back on and I can go back to menu?

TP:

#6 Lee200

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Posted Dec 10 2018 - 04:48 PM

Twinpotter, if you know what you're doing, you can edit any of the driver.ini file settings.  Alison was one of the first to do that in order to better control the AI speed; however, we know a lot more now about the AI that we did back in Alison's day.

If my memory is correct, Alison used driver global hype settings of less than 1.00.  I don't recommend that.

You should be able to achieve what you want by using the original driver.ini file hype settings, setting GHS to 1.00 for all drivers, and adjusting npt_override to suit.

See my website here for more info:

http://gplmotorworks...ype-System.html

If you are having patching issues, be sure to delete the mod .exe before using GEM+ to create the new one.  See here:

http://gplmotorworks...dd-Patches.html

I can't remember if the AI Speed Control patch included with the '55 mod is the same as the one on my website.  So for the '55 and LoG mod, I wouldn't apply the patch.  It should work fine for all other mods.

Edited by Lee200, Dec 10 2018 - 05:00 PM.


#7 twinpotter

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Posted Dec 10 2018 - 05:15 PM

Thanks Lee for your info and time.

I'm looking forward to tinkering.

I think it's a fun part of GPL, as well as driving.

Cheers πŸ‘

TP: 😁

#8 Tato

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Posted Dec 11 2018 - 04:04 AM

Since I'm probably one of the slowest drivers ever seen on Earth, I have to slow down AI too.
Nowadays I prefer to change this stuff separately for every track lowering down a bit the dlong_speed_adj_coeff value in [ GP ] section into the track.ini file; of course is possible to do the trick separately for every mod which have a proper track.ini file.

#9 orlinos

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Posted Dec 11 2018 - 06:10 AM

View Posttwinpotter, on Dec 10 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

On another note I'm also getting an hanging of the game to desktop, when I come out of training or race (sounds in background) So I have to, forgot name now, system manager ? Close programme, but as soon as I do the game comes back on and I can go back to menu?
TP:

Try running the game using some program with screen overlay - for example Fraps (with the overlay showing fps turned on).
If it works, you should always use it with the game - or Riva Tuner, or probably any other problem that overlays something on the game screen.

If you have black screen but with sounds playing: pushing Escape, than Enter - repeat that a few times - should exit the game. Because the game is still up and running, just having display troubles.

http://srmz.net/inde...14

Edited by orlinos, Dec 11 2018 - 06:10 AM.


#10 JonnyA

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Posted Dec 11 2018 - 06:57 AM

I follow Tato's method - it takes time to set up for every Mod and track, but once done I know I'm going to get close racing that challenges me, every single time.

#11 twinpotter

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Posted Dec 11 2018 - 10:54 AM

Thanks for the info again Orlinos and JonnyA.

Loads of GPL tinkering to do πŸ˜πŸ˜πŸ‘πŸ‘

TP:

#12 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Dec 12 2018 - 09:05 AM

I'm curious. Those who want to slow down the AI. Aren't you getting close racing with the slower AI, or do you want them all slowed down so you can win races?

Is that rewarding?

That's like going hunting and shooting an animal tied to a tree.

#13 orlinos

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Posted Dec 12 2018 - 09:33 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Dec 12 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

I'm curious. Those who want to slow down the AI. Aren't you getting close racing with the slower AI, or do you want them all slowed down so you can win races?

Is that rewarding?

That's like going hunting and shooting an animal tied to a tree.

When I began playing GPL ('65 mod only, since I am still learning) I used vanilla global hype settings and npt = 1.05, because I was very slow. That basically meant i was driving alone all the time, because slower drivers would stay behind, while Clark and his merry band would be few kilometers ahead. Racing did not differ much from practicing alone.

Then, I set all AI to global hype settings = 1 and got much closer and more satisfying racing. I still used npt = 1.05, since I was still slow.

I got better, won a few races -  then I lowered npt setting, so I am again in the middle of the pack at best, sometimes at the back if I do mistakes. I treat slowing the AI as a difficulty setting. Set it too low - I win too easily, set it too high - I just "practice" alone behind the race.

Edited by orlinos, Dec 12 2018 - 09:33 AM.


#14 twinpotter

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Posted Dec 12 2018 - 09:59 AM

I agree with Orlinos but understand Pete about your view.

The best way to learn is to get out there into the thick of the action. Aka with your example Pete, regarding hunting and shooting. But is it not good to practice those techniques in a non challenging way first. So again from your example using the shooting range and shooting at tin cans on the fence. Then you can release that animal, from the tree πŸ€”

TP:

#15 orlinos

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Posted Dec 12 2018 - 10:45 AM

View Posttwinpotter, on Dec 12 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

I agree with Orlinos but understand Pete about your view.

The best way to learn is to get out there into the thick of the action. Aka with your example Pete, regarding hunting and shooting. But is it not good to practice those techniques in a non challenging way first. So again from your example using the shooting range and shooting at tin cans on the fence. Then you can release that animal, from the tree ν Ύν΄”

TP:

Right, when I was only beginning sim racing I had to do a lot of exercises and a lot of lapping alone. I was so slow that racing even with a snail-pace AI made no sense. After some time I could reintroduce the AI, learn how to race with it and slowly speed it up.

#16 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Dec 12 2018 - 10:52 AM

I agree that racing the AI right away is a bad plan. It's better to wait until you can do steady laps alone first.

#17 JonnyA

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Posted Dec 12 2018 - 03:56 PM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Dec 12 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

I'm curious. Those who want to slow down the AI. Aren't you getting close racing with the slower AI, or do you want them all slowed down so you can win races?

Is that rewarding?

That's like going hunting and shooting an animal tied to a tree.

I set the AI speed so that, if I'm in a fast car and I drive my best, I have a shot at pole and the win. But if I choose a slower car, or drive badly, I'll be lucky to score a point. So it's still a challenge, but it's tailored to me.

#18 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Dec 12 2018 - 06:57 PM

Setting the AI so you have to do your best laps to win is a good challenge. Having Jimmy behind you pushing for 2 hours is always a challenge. The lad never gives up or makes a mistake.

#19 Stefan Roess

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Posted Dec 13 2018 - 05:59 AM

In case anyone wants to get deeper into the AI topic you may want to have a look at Lee`s
GPL AI Tutorial
Booklet about AI tests and how to best control their speed.
http://gplmotorworks.gplworld.de/

Edited by Stefan Roess, Dec 13 2018 - 06:00 AM.


#20 Tato

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Posted Dec 13 2018 - 10:27 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Dec 12 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

I'm curious. Those who want to slow down the AI. Aren't you getting close racing with the slower AI, or do you want them all slowed down so you can win races?

Is that rewarding?

That's like going hunting and shooting an animal tied to a tree.

I wan't to be too much rude (but pretty sure I will seems so in the end), and maybe it's only my suspicious and paranoid nature, but in your words I find mostly a kidding towards slow drivers (like me), and a not much veiled accusation of cheating (btw, I'm against hunting in every form, I've seen along the years is mostly a 'sport' practised by stupids and arrogants cheating individuals).

Leaving aside the original Papyrus tracks, we have plenty of addons released (thanks to God and the ones who made them possible and still doing new ones and improving the tracks already released). It's a clear thing to all that at some tracks AI is too fast, at some others too slow (even for me), depending on respective .lp and .ini files; not to mention the differences between a mod and another, infact we have specific files for each one to fine tune if necessary (and many times is necessary, please allow to me at least this, since I mess up with AI files from +10 years now and I'm pretty sure I have a point on this).

Please consider also that changing AI performances is a normal and acquired feature in every menu of every racing sim, in order to permit to all virtual drivers - from beginners to professionals, from just enthusiast to skilled aliens, from casual gamers to hardcore sim-addicted, from keyboarders to millions dollars virtual driving devices owners- to be at least barely competitive against AI and no one in the world, except you, think is like shooting an animal tied to a tree...

Is that rewarding to win against AI if you are 2 secs faster per lap than Jimmy? Silly question. Of course is not.
But is rewarding to take 1,5 sec per lap from slowest AI driver on the grid, after you managed to perfectly learning the track with lot of solo practice, made perfect setup to you, and spitting blood at every turn and doing around your PB at every lap? Mine is a silly question too. Of course is unrewarding and badly frustrating.

As JonnyA correctly wrote, the goal is to keep AI in a challenging range, but tailored to you. Nothing more. No easy winning, No cheating at all.

God bless You and all the alien drivers. Maybe next year You can win the F1 world championship against Lewis Hamilton, I can assure it will be rewarding.




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