Jump to content


- - - - -

Do We Need This For Gpl


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 twinpotter

twinpotter

    Richard "Dick"Seaman

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,474 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:leeds,England
  • Interests:Motor Racing
    Motorbikes
    computer gaming-
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 15 2018 - 05:06 PM

Looking at the Project cars game and seeing helmet cam.

https://youtu.be/4aW6K1KPcE4

Do we need this for GPL. Would it be wanted and more importantly, could it be done.

Okay, maybe for a later mod, like 70-73, when full face helmets came in to the fashion. Or maybe replicate the scarf over the mouth affect, for earlier periods.

TP:

#2 John Woods

John Woods

    Be Somebody

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,471 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Too Much Fun
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 15 2018 - 06:56 PM

What am I supposed to be seeing?
JMO, front to back loading portrayed on a display is very disconcerting.

Also, happy to be using the No Letterbox Patch.
So this is like not using the No Letterbox Patch and the black bars jump around?

Also, this is maybe not the same, only similar to GPL Glance when using no side loads and just a bit of side view?

Also, know where my head is.
Its looking at the track so doesn't need an inside the helmet view?


Not trying to be the bad guy.
Enjoyed the video and reading the comments that followed.
:D

Edited by John Woods, Aug 15 2018 - 07:03 PM.


#3 Brocky05

Brocky05

    King of the Mountain

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 201 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Long And Winding Road
  • Interests:I'm Way Too Addicted to GPL For Anything Else
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 16 2018 - 02:34 AM

you mean something like these https://pevly.com/ac...camera-history/

no thanks

#4 twinpotter

twinpotter

    Richard "Dick"Seaman

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,474 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:leeds,England
  • Interests:Motor Racing
    Motorbikes
    computer gaming-
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 16 2018 - 03:56 AM

Hi John

This video, doesn't do the helmet cam justice, to actually playing in the game.

I fully understand and respect your thoughts and doubts on this cam, in relation to the no letterbox and that it would be possibly a step back, for GPL.

I just wanted to gauge people's thoughts and whether they felt it was something GPL could include. Yes it is quirky, but I found it, very immersive in the game.

Thanks 👍

TP:

Edited by twinpotter, Aug 16 2018 - 03:57 AM.


#5 marco lenarduzzi

marco lenarduzzi

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:brome lake Quebec, Canada
  • Interests:racing sims,cars, F1,cooking,skiing
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 16 2018 - 04:21 AM

rfactor was doing this back in 2009. Have a look at this video  https://youtu.be/O5tdIdcxeDo

#6 Saiph

Saiph

    Drives 4 Team BDS

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,864 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Aylesbury, UK
  • Interests:Computer gaming (esp. sims, strategy, RPG), real ale, live music, motor sports, boring the NSA/GCHQ to death.
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 16 2018 - 05:36 AM

For me, it was a very good development when the "no letterbox" patch was released for GPL. I find the sim much more immersive when I have a wider view of the surrounding environment. I find myself being "pulled into" the screen more, if you can understand what I mean.

This "helmet view" feature seems to take a step backwards, simply replacing the old black letterbox bars by the obstruction of a simulated full-face helmet. (And as mentioned above, a full-face helmet is not accurate for most of the GPL mods.)

I think this is another example of a question which has been asked many times about simulation software. Do we really want our sims to be slavish copies of real life, where the negative aspects of a real-life situation are copied along with the good aspects? Or do we prefer to realise that we play sims for enjoyment, and although we want the "feel" of the sim to be fairly accurate, we don't want to have to put up with all the drawbacks as well?

I would always put myself in the second camp, so I would say the "helmet view" is not required. Ideally, it could be introduced as an optional add-on if there is enough demand. But personally I wouldn't use it.

#7 JohannDaart

JohannDaart

    Chris Irwin

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kraków, Poland
  • Interests:Muay Thai
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 16 2018 - 05:39 AM

I don't feel it adds to the immersion at all, but that's my feeling.

What increases immersion: correct FOV (triple screen, vr, superfov setups), load cell brake, good H-Shifter with some resistance when you change gears (like Fanatec one), 9:1 steering ratio + 540 degrees wheel, well tuned FFB that's not excessive with effects, rim that feels in hands like a proper rim, not a toy.
DD drive wheel is probably nice, I've never tried it, but I think that T300 with alcantara rim is everything somebody needs to enjoy sim racing fully.

What I think GPL needs is mod that adds VR support. That would make GPL immortal.
RBR community made VR mod, and that sim is still going strong.

But VR support would also demand redoing at least 67 cockpits and wheels in 3D to increase immersion, if that's even possible.

Edited by JohannDaart, Aug 16 2018 - 05:40 AM.


#8 Border Reiver

Border Reiver

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 974 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St Andrews, Scotland
  • Interests:GPL and GPL editing
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 16 2018 - 06:40 AM

One of the versions of Lee's wobbly head patch also made the view change due to g-forces as well as the graphical representation from outside the car, but when testing it a reasonable number of us just ended up feeling really nauseous and motion sick and we couldn't find sensible numbers for making the head move in the external view that didn't induce motion sickness while in the car. The problem is really the disconnect of projecting the impression you are moving on screen, but your body not actually moving. In reality you feel the g-forces and your body resists them and your brain can compute what your eyes are telling you about why the world looks like it is moving in a given direction. Unless you are on a full motion seat you don't get that in a video game and this disconnect then ends up inducing motion sickness in those who are prone to it.

Rob

#9 Millennium

Millennium

    Roger Williamson

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 386 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Interests:GPL
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 16 2018 - 07:47 AM

Race 07 had a similair 'helmet cam' for open wheelers. I always hated it and tried to find a way to disable that extra layer.

I don't see any point in limiting your visibility in any game.

#10 John Woods

John Woods

    Be Somebody

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,471 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Too Much Fun
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 16 2018 - 09:06 AM

It seems to make the video more "real."
Only, more real to the viewer of the video, maybe not the driver while in-game?

Might be helpful or an enhancement for some users with smaller display compared to larger?

If a user sets GPL Glance to "use side forces" the display distorts in a way that is not so pleasant.
The display does not distort when the car is balanced and centered.

Using this feature during training, setup testing, or practice, to minimize side forces thru a turn, will reveal "the line of least resistance" and the fastest way thru a turn or a set of esses.

So guessing the same analysis could be applied with the PC helmet cam?

Interesting about the Bobblehead Patch development ideas and testing.
Thanks RH.


:D

Edited by John Woods, Aug 16 2018 - 07:29 PM.


#11 Stefan Roess

Stefan Roess

    Denny Hulme

  • GPLLinks Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,937 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bavaria, Germany
  • Interests:racing :)
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Aug 17 2018 - 05:47 AM

The helmet cam view of Project Cars and Project Cars 2 is a nice feature, but I don`t use it. :)
It feels strange to me.
I also reduce the car visible movement effect at every game, as it just feels not good, when I sit still on my chair without any forces but on the monitor everything is shaking. :blink:
I guess it would be different with a full motion simulator. :D


As Rob has mentioned we tested such a kind of view / effect for GPL when Lee was developing the bobble head effect patch, but none of the testers liked the effect, so Lee didn`t add it.


VR support for GPL would be great, but will most likely never happen.
I don`t have VR equipment but I had the chance to test Assetto Corsa and Project Cars 2 with VR at a friends and it`s great. :)
It adds a lot of immersion.

Edited by Stefan Roess, Aug 17 2018 - 05:49 AM.


#12 Pete Gaimari

Pete Gaimari

    Jim Clark

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,536 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado
  • Interests:Racing and Muzzleloader Hunting
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 18 2018 - 11:58 AM

I always hated that view in PC. In 67 I was wearing a full face helmet and none of it would show.

#13 marco lenarduzzi

marco lenarduzzi

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:brome lake Quebec, Canada
  • Interests:racing sims,cars, F1,cooking,skiing
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 20 2018 - 02:20 PM

Attached File  Car days37.jpg   147.2K   25 downloads     When we raced go karts back in the early 80's we would tape up our visors so there was just a slit to see out of and i didn't find it to impede my vision on track. Then again it was a long time ago and I was young and had 20/20 vision. lol

#14 Robert Fleurke

Robert Fleurke

    Denny Hulme

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 556 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Groningen, the Netherlands
  • Interests:Life
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 20 2018 - 05:03 PM

I do prefer as much horizontal and vertical FOV as possible without letterbox. The more view you can have, the better.

If someone wants to have that kind of immersion they could wear a helmet themselves while simracing, or wear a scarf :)

#15 Keyser Zose

Keyser Zose

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 79 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 20 2018 - 09:35 PM

:muttley:

#16 tjc

tjc

    Jim Clark

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 753 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland.
  • Interests:Various
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 29 2018 - 04:30 AM

This is just like the "Visor Mod" for rF and rF2 is`nt it? "Helmet Cam" suggests something different to me, like a view from a camera attached to the outside of the helmet rather than what the eyes would see from inside it. Not really my cup of tea but each to their own.

#17 snafu

snafu

    John Hammonds

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 86 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL. F2B
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 29 2018 - 05:32 AM

I think it's a solution to a none existent problem. Seems like a reverse "No letterbox patch" with rounded edges

Perhaps car helmets are more restrictive than motorcycle helmets, but I've been riding motorcycles for 45 years and can't remember consciously ever noticing the helmet restricting my view.

TTFN
John.

#18 Old Simmer

Old Simmer

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 125 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eastern OK
  • Interests:Mainly interested in two sims: GPL (and mods) and Nascar 2003 Season (and mods).
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 29 2018 - 09:16 AM

As a motorcycle rider of nearly 50 years (started riding in 1969), I agree with John.

It's been my experience that GOGGLES seem to be the factor that limits the vision, and mainly interferes with the peripheral vision. For that reason, years ago I have switched to wearing "wrap around type" safety glasses (either shaded or clear, depending on the weather). Those have no impediment of the peripheral vision and are as shock resistant (or more so in some cases) as goggles and/or a windscreen (as on a full face helmet). I even wore such safety glasses in competition and it was so much easier to get a visual on where a competitor on your right/left was actually located. Note that I'm talking dirt bike style helmets that require additional eye protection, NOT street/touring-type full face helmets that have a wind screen. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever had a street/touring type full face helmet on my head! Anyway, my comments are certainly from the "FWIW Dept".

Old Simmer aka Andre

#19 SV3000

SV3000

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 93 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:B.C. Canada
  • Interests:AssettoCorsa,rFactor2,LiveForSpeed,Race07
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 29 2018 - 12:07 PM

I agree with others, the helmet visor is good for watching, which adds a lot immersion, but for playing its an unnecessary handicap (race07 is one of the worst example). But it could be a good thing for watching in replay and maybe movie making.

#20 Pete Gaimari

Pete Gaimari

    Jim Clark

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,536 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado
  • Interests:Racing and Muzzleloader Hunting
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Aug 29 2018 - 01:44 PM

View PostOld Simmer, on Aug 29 2018 - 09:16 AM, said:

As a motorcycle rider of nearly 50 years (started riding in 1969), I agree with John.

It's been my experience that GOGGLES seem to be the factor that limits the vision, and mainly interferes with the peripheral vision. For that reason, years ago I have switched to wearing "wrap around type" safety glasses (either shaded or clear, depending on the weather). Those have no impediment of the peripheral vision and are as shock resistant (or more so in some cases) as goggles and/or a windscreen (as on a full face helmet). I even wore such safety glasses in competition and it was so much easier to get a visual on where a competitor on your right/left was actually located. Note that I'm talking dirt bike style helmets that require additional eye protection, NOT street/touring-type full face helmets that have a wind screen. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever had a street/touring type full face helmet on my head! Anyway, my comments are certainly from the "FWIW Dept".

Old Simmer aka Andre

You want your peripheral vision impaired? Try losing the sight in one eye like me. After much thought and endless experimenting, I found a way to beat it. It also works 100% of the time and it's free. I turn my head. :)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Sim Racing Links