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Thrustmaster T150 Any Good For Gpl?


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#1 gabuck

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Posted Mar 02 2016 - 04:10 AM

I need to get a new wheel for GPL on my PC. Can't afford the G27 which everyone goes on about
but the Thrustmaster T150 seems to be judged as a good mid level wheel. However nearly all user
reviews relate to Play Station and some question its compatibility with PCs.

Has anyone got any experience of the T150 with GPL and is it worth going for?
If not any other recommendations?

Geoff

#2 ReneLotus

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Posted Mar 02 2016 - 05:35 AM

I don't know anything about the wheel you mention, but I have been using the Logitech Driving Force for a while now and it works well with GPL.

Good luck on your wheel hunt!

#3 one2fwee

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Posted Mar 02 2016 - 07:12 AM

Hmm i wouldn't recommend a G27 or (or G25 or G29 or similar) Logitech wheel anyway.
The reason being is they all have really really awful force feedback.

There is a big FFB deadzone in the centre of the wheel which means that subtle forces are not transmitted, so you learn about slides later than you normally would.
The FFB linearity is also atrocious.

Logitech say the deadzone is due to them not wanting the dual motors in the wheel to fight against each other. That may be so but they could still make it a lot smaller.
It also doesn't explain the non-linearity.

My Logitech Momo has much better FFB, however it only has 240 degrees of rotation, which is a big problem for hairpins as you can imagine.

In terms of that Thrustmaster wheel, i don't know - see if anyone has posted a linearity graph / data for it anywhere.


The thing is, Logitech could release firmware to improve the G25 / G27 / G29 etc but they won't. They simply don't care.

The only way of getting around this issue i think would be to make some alternate drivers that you could feed in the wheels "linearity curve" and they adjust the requested FFB accordingly, to correct for it.
Of course, even this wouldn't be ideal as you would then get variable levels of "resolution" at different levels of FFB, but it is better than nothing.

Some games include a "minimum FFB level" parameter, which can help with the FFB problem, but sadly no one has modded this into GPL (it wasn't a problem with wheels when GPL was in its heyday).
That said, even with such a parameter, that won't solve the awful linearity issues.

It's sad, because it ruins the G27 for me, which otherwise seems a pretty decent wheel.

#4 Stefan Roess

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Posted Mar 02 2016 - 08:15 AM

I can`t comment on the Thrustmaster T150 as I am using the Thrustmaster T 500 RS, that works perfect with GPL.
But that does not help you much. ;)

#5 Kiviut

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Posted Mar 02 2016 - 10:00 AM

I currently am using G27. I am currently looking at getting a T300 wheel base with one of the addon wheels. Right now the G27 is sufficient. Luckily i dont have the deadzone. In any case the T300 wheel base could be an option for you.

#6 one2fwee

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Posted Mar 02 2016 - 11:57 AM

All G27's have the deadzone unfortunately - it is in the very firmware for the wheel :(

Try this if you don't believe:

Quote

First download WheelCheck.exe: http://uploaded.net/file/2e784k4f

Next, plug in your wheel and then open "WheelCheck.exe". Once opened, click the "Spring Force" drop down menu and click "Step Log 2 (linear force test)" and the test will immediately begin. Leave it to run it's course and then when your wheel stops moving (you will know because it goes from weak force to strongest force in the iteration test) close the program. Then go to your "Documents" folder and find the newly created log2 xxxxxx...etc file. Make a graph of it with "force" values along the x-axis and deltaX (or deltaXdeg) along the y-axis.

Here are the results for my G27, set to 100 Force, 0 Damping, 0 Spring, 0 centring spring (and disabled) and set to 900 degrees of rotation:
force, startX, endX, deltaX, deltaXDeg
0, 0, 0, 0, 0
200, 4, 4, 0, 0.000000
400, 4, 4, 0, 0.000000
600, 4, 4, 0, 0.000000
800, 4, 4, 0, 0.000000
1000, 4, 4, 0, 0.000000
1200, 4, 4, 0, 0.000000
1400, 4, 4, 0, 0.000000
1600, 4, 4, 0, 0.000000
1800, 4, 4, 0, 0.000000
2000, 4, 105, 101, 4.559605
2200, 114, 324, 210, 9.448819
2400, 341, 724, 383, 17.249588
2600, 294, 800, 506, 22.743088
2800, 256, 999, 743, 33.400475
3000, 109, 961, 852, 38.344627
3200, 122, 1209, 1087, 48.892143
3400, -54, 1251, 1305, 58.780441
3600, -109, 1356, 1465, 65.976929
3800, -130, 1446, 1576, 70.921074
4000, -147, 1492, 1639, 73.777695
4200, -155, 1525, 1680, 75.645485
4400, -164, 1588, 1752, 78.886650
4600, -169, 1631, 1800, 81.029114
4800, -160, 1664, 1824, 82.127815
5000, -147, 1778, 1925, 86.632484
5200, -160, 1740, 1900, 85.533783
5400, -130, 1875, 2005, 90.258194
5600, -164, 1875, 2039, 91.796371
5800, -164, 1858, 2022, 91.027283
6000, -155, 1887, 2042, 91.961182
6200, -147, 2044, 2191, 98.608315
6400, -160, 2014, 2174, 97.894157
6600, -155, 2077, 2232, 100.476105
6800, -160, 2023, 2183, 98.278702
7000, -164, 2099, 2263, 101.849480
7200, -160, 2145, 2305, 103.772202
7400, -172, 2204, 2376, 106.958435
7600, -147, 2216, 2363, 106.354149
7800, -155, 2293, 2448, 110.199600
8000, -160, 2338, 2498, 112.451935
8200, -155, 2338, 2493, 112.232193
8400, -151, 2470, 2621, 118.000366
8600, -155, 2456, 2611, 117.560883
8800, -155, 2592, 2747, 123.658669
9000, -155, 2903, 3058, 137.667099
9200, -155, 3097, 3252, 146.401764
9400, -155, 3114, 3269, 147.170853
9600, -164, 3109, 3273, 147.335648
9800, -155, 3114, 3269, 147.170853
10000, -143, 3207, 3350, 150.796555

Posted Image


And here are the results for my Momo Racing set to 100 Force, 0 Damping, 0 Spring, 0 centring spring (and disabled), at 240 rotation (as this wheel has a fixed rotation):
force, startX, endX, deltaX, deltaXDeg
0, 0, 0, 0, 0
200, 127, 166, 39, 1.759531
400, 127, 205, 78, 3.519062
600, 146, 478, 332, 14.956012
800, 146, 596, 450, 20.234604
1000, 146, 791, 645, 29.032259
1200, 107, 967, 860, 38.709679
1400, 107, 1065, 958, 43.108505
1600, 127, 1300, 1173, 52.785923
1800, 127, 1397, 1270, 57.184750
2000, 107, 1456, 1349, 60.703812
2200, 127, 1691, 1564, 70.381233
2400, 107, 1769, 1662, 74.780060
2600, 127, 1964, 1837, 82.697945
2800, 146, 2082, 1936, 87.096771
3000, 127, 2238, 2111, 95.014664
3200, 107, 2316, 2209, 99.413490
3400, 127, 2473, 2346, 105.571846
3600, 127, 2551, 2424, 109.090912
3800, 127, 2746, 2619, 117.888565
4000, 146, 2844, 2698, 121.407623
4200, 127, 2942, 2815, 126.686218
4400, 107, 2981, 2874, 129.325516
4600, 127, 3137, 3010, 135.483871
4800, 146, 3352, 3206, 144.281525
5000, 146, 3450, 3304, 148.680359
5200, 127, 3528, 3401, 153.079178
5400, 146, 3626, 3480, 156.598236
5600, 146, 3743, 3597, 161.876831
5800, 146, 3958, 3812, 171.554245
6000, 146, 4056, 3910, 175.953079
6200, 127, 4134, 4007, 180.351913
6400, 146, 4134, 3988, 179.472137
6600, 146, 4310, 4164, 187.390030
6800, 127, 4330, 4203, 189.149567
7000, 146, 4662, 4516, 203.225800
7200, 146, 4780, 4634, 208.504395
7400, 127, 4838, 4711, 212.023468
7600, 146, 4819, 4673, 210.263931
7800, 146, 4916, 4770, 214.662750
8000, 127, 5014, 4887, 219.941345
8200, 146, 5151, 5005, 225.219940
8400, 146, 5307, 5161, 232.258072
8600, 146, 5757, 5611, 252.492676
8800, 127, 5913, 5786, 260.410553
9000, 146, 5796, 5650, 254.252197
9200, 146, 5855, 5709, 256.891510
9400, 146, 5913, 5767, 259.530792
9600, 146, 5913, 5767, 259.530792
9800, 146, 5913, 5767, 259.530792
10000, 146, 5933, 5787, 260.410553

Posted Image


The X axis is percentage of force applied to the wheel (so 1000 = 10% and 10000 = 100%) and the Y axis is the difference in rotation reading compared to the previous force value.


Would be interesting to see your G27 results! :)

Edited by one2fwee, Mar 02 2016 - 12:02 PM.


#7 Kiviut

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Posted Mar 02 2016 - 12:29 PM

I never put 3rd party applications, I don't like junk in my pc in case they screw up with windows in any way, esp on my gaming computer. I'll take your word for it. Numbers don't mean a thing to me, I just need a fluid motion all the way from lock to lock. An Old Logi Momo the Cheap Momo got me a time of 7:58 in the ring, so good hardware for me is just a plus. This wheel is good enough for my needs atm but my upgrade will probably be the T300, unless the Fanatec wheel base price goes down.

#8 one2fwee

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Posted Mar 02 2016 - 12:39 PM

The application doesn't alter your PC, it is standalone and doesn't install. Once you've used it, you can simply delete it.

The shapes of the lines are more important.
You can see that the momo is a a linear graph, as it should be, where as the G27 rises sharply (so it is boosting lower forces) and then tails off, before rising again.
Also, you can see that the G27 doesn't start moving the wheel until it gets 20% force requested.

So the G27 has a massive 20% deadzone at the centre
With the momo the deadzone is much lower, like 2 or 4%

Edited by one2fwee, Mar 02 2016 - 12:40 PM.


#9 Kiviut

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Posted Mar 02 2016 - 12:55 PM

From what I can remember Logitech Wingman Force performed better then the Black Momo Force, lol. The pedals on their own were abysmal. They worked intermittently, its a wonder I got 7:58 in the ring with them. Now the Red Momo Logitech felt beautiful. My goal is to better my old times, so I think my current wheel will suffice, all the graphs and numbers are moot to me and probably to a lot of simmers to. I only focus on my laptimes, sector times, so my G27 doesnt bother me as much as it does you.






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