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Building A Gpl 2016 Demo


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#31 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jan 10 2016 - 11:35 AM

At some point there needs to be a substitute for the CD. They won't be available forever.

#32 Bernd Nowak

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Posted Jan 10 2016 - 11:53 AM

Laguna Seca?
Clermont-Ferrand 65?
Brands Hatch?

Still we would need to get permissions from the teams. How about tracks from Ginetto? The targa is to long but from the zilions of tracks?

#33 Bernd Nowak

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Posted Jan 10 2016 - 11:56 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Jan 10 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

At some point there needs to be a substitute for the CD. They won't be available forever.

Sure Pete but first this and maybe during the time I need to build this, someone can get an answer if it would be allowed to do so. But I wouldn't be surprised if you had to pay for the rights to publish. Even if it's for free :(

#34 M Needforspeed

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Posted Jan 10 2016 - 02:50 PM

View PostBernd Nowak, on Jan 10 2016 - 11:53 AM, said:

Laguna Seca?
Clermont-Ferrand 65?
Brands Hatch?

Still we would need to get permissions from the teams. How about tracks from Ginetto? The targa is to long but from the zilions of tracks?

regarding eventual license outside claims :

  Then, Spa67 is the only 67 WChampionship track started form scratch, and for free,  that is in our hands and control . It is made of Public roads, so we won't ask to the Belgian Ministry of transport for a license !!

Bernd, for newcomers, Spa isn 't that hard to have pleasure with, that 's not an hard track  to drive reasonably fast, as hard than Watkins Glen or Monza. And such a Great Ambassador for Newcomers becoming soon NewGPLaddicts

Bugatti wld be the other, but what a poor ambassador for the Great Game, and there is still the ACO or some other organization that cld claim some rights.

Brands Hatch come third, but it hosted a Non Championship event.A lot harder to get pleasure with !

Spa and BH wld suit well GPL V 2.0 = the 67 Historical Mod, I am with Pete and John, imo, it has to be included in the carset.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Jan 10 2016 - 03:20 PM.


#35 M Needforspeed

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Posted Jan 10 2016 - 03:08 PM

View PostJohn Woods, on Jan 08 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

1. On its own website, similar to other major releases like mods, with a links page
2. Ready to click and race on-line
3. Include Lee's no letterbox, sound, and weather patches, or at least Carsound Patch with select sound files
4. GPLEA 67 F1s
5. GEM+
6. Long track patched
7. Language choice
8. Similar to 1.07 Installer
9. Very comprehensive detailed readme

Nice list John, that will make the experience comfortable for newcomers

Edited by M Needforspeed, Jan 10 2016 - 03:09 PM.


#36 M Needforspeed

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Posted Jan 10 2016 - 03:31 PM

View Postginetto, on Jan 10 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

It was Monza. :rolleyes:
I also think that is best NOT to add all the original tracks.

But I think you could add 2 or 5 or more circuits choosing from the addon tracks created by modders.
There are a bunch that are pretty great without being papyrus. :)

Ginetto, you suggest  to add some very attractives no Papyrus tracks, for the fine details, the Realism Police and some interesting driving experiences

If we select real championships tracks with others carsets eventually in the 2016 demo, that can create instant new excitement for the newcomers :

  F2 Mod (67) : Zolder67
  Can Am 71 Mod  : Riverside 71( still finetuned at the GPLR)
  F1 66 Mod : Reims 66/ Brands Hatch66
  F1 65 Mod : Clermont Ferrand 65
  F1 69 Mod : Montjuich 69
  WSC Mod: Targa Florio ( but too long ??? ) Monza 10 K ( latest version ) , Spa 67 ( again)
and  Can Am 66 Mod( if available ) : Riverside 66 / Las Vegas Stardust 66

all those tracks have been largely popular and acclaimed when they were released.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Jan 11 2016 - 04:16 PM.


#37 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jan 10 2016 - 04:18 PM

Are these considered Papy tracks? Almost a full season.

Kyalami68
Mexico multi season
Monaco Rocks/Monacane
Mosport Rain
Nurburgring 65-69
Buggati
Spa67
Silver2
Watkins Fall
Zandvoort Multi Season

#38 John Woods

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Posted Jan 10 2016 - 04:52 PM

Thanks M, also appreciate your comments.

JMVHO idea of GPL Demo (series) is to introduce Grand Prix Legends in a way that seamlessly installs with current OS/hardware etc, so new user can get in car without having to update with complex series of patches or spend a few days here trying to find out what's wrong. So rather than load it up with tracks that are already available with installers, maybe better to rather get basics and whole system updates with only a very few tracks.
Bernd, Lee, and others (everyone else) know way better than me how, or if, things like Lee's patches, dirtgear, GPLFog, CarCamEdit, Tire Temp Utility, (Does Glance work in Win7/10?), etc. can be included and clickable in GEM+.

Once installed and running well, it is a big adventure to visit the AltTD and begin a collection of tracks. Not to mention discovering SRMZ, gpllinks.org, TvO's site, VROC/IGOR leagues, The Mods, the boatload of links and info everywhere, and the going on 20-year on-line history of support sites for Grand Prix Legends..

Thinking about a new demo is itself a big adventure, and also it is housekeeping. Maybe emphasis/priority should be to keep goals simple and not answer/resolve too many things at once.

My understanding is three of the OEM tracks were released in demo versions...Monza, the Glen, and the Ring (in a German magazine?).
But un-released tracks are a separate issue compared to new demo.
Is there any other reason beyond preference to propose a new demo provide a resolution to that situation?
Be something new for sure, but it could be of secondary or no concern to the purpose of a new demo.

#39 John Woods

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Posted Jan 10 2016 - 04:54 PM

Like the way you're thinking Pete.
With permissions those could be loaded up in a separate release?

#40 M Needforspeed

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Posted Jan 10 2016 - 05:30 PM

John,

I see your points .In the Situation we face in 2016, with no or hard GPL CD to find ,  the target of this demo can be more ambitious than the Papy one. keeping it simple, but attractive, and including 6/7 tracks at minimum, is a way to achieve this goal.  The numbers and variety of patches come after, and they can be a little disturbing for newcomers.

I see the demo as a communication tool,  to show quickly to the newcomers , all the know how mastered by modders, and a glimpse on things they can expect, when they' ll go further and deeper into the game.A representative sample of where the game is at.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Jan 10 2016 - 05:46 PM.


#41 Michkov

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Posted Jan 11 2016 - 12:02 AM

TL:DR The point of the demo should be to get people interested in the game, show them what it can do. Not overwhelm them with options, once they are hooked and herded to here we can provide solutions for the missing content.

View PostRoo, on Jan 09 2016 - 02:11 AM, said:

Include the patches:
Letterbox
head movement
dirt-gear (olaf's)
weather
pit-stop
all 60fps patches needed for the various mods

View PostBernd Nowak, on Jan 09 2016 - 04:37 AM, said:

Just to help me a bit I have attached the following options of the 1.07 installer. The dark grey ones can be removed. The light yellows should maybe have other defaults. For sure the listed patches are not there because they are needed mostly for GEM. Which I need to find a smooth way to incorporate :)

If the rest should be more or less just be installed choosing the defaults and hence maybe removed from the options fine by me. The less options the better :)
I've recently written a short 04demo + GEM guide and the amount of settings and boxes ticked is a bit taunting for a newcomer IMO. That's why I think one of the main targets of a 16demo should be to be as simple as possible. Which means the least amount of choices possible. I'm willing to give the choice of install location but that's it haha.
When it comes to patches?/mods?(we really need a better name for those) lets keep it simple. Am I right that its possible to include a patched exe in the demo without the need for GEM? If so I'd only use those that dont effect the gameplay, so letterbox, 60fps(?), bobblehead, pitstop(?).

View PostBernd Nowak, on Jan 09 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

To add further. I checked the GEM&iGOR installation code and would refuse to create a package of GPL & Gem&iGOR. Especially because you can remove GEM&iGOR through the programs/apps depending on the Windows version you use. However, I would like to add a "user/car/resolution" page so that a new player would be created.
It would be useful for hints about the various player.ini settings which are "important".
If Stefan wouldn't mind he may would like to create an installation walk through adopted for this demo and GEM/iGor ... :)
Can you expand on that? Especially the ability to remove GEM via Windows programs/apps?

Continues below....

Edited by Michkov, Jan 11 2016 - 09:52 AM.


#42 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jan 11 2016 - 08:50 AM

How do you add the missing Papy tracks to the demo without the CD?

#43 Bernd Nowak

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Posted Jan 11 2016 - 09:48 AM

Creating a little installer to add the missing original tracks is an easy installer. I can check a cd/directory for the missing folder structure and DATs and copy them and apply the missing updates from the GPLPS installer in one way. Easy. Or if there's a positive answer about the question if it is legal to offer a full updated installation it's also not a problem. If there's someone here who still has an iRacing account, ask Nim Cross/David Kaemmer if he sees problems creating a freeware GPL community driven installer which would not require any CD.

Monza10K is fine. Bugatti had online racing problems from my memories. Laguna Seca runs like a charme. Reims 66 should be OK and  Brands Hatch 66 too. Riverside 66 should be great.
Who checks permissions from the track makers and addon makers? I have asked a lot for those thinks included in the GPLPS Installer as well as in the 65Mod and 65Tracks.

As for a lot of these: Lee's patches, dirtgear, GPLFog, CarCamEdit, Tire Temp Utility I should recreate a new GEM package BUT I remember that the GEM plugins had to be choosen wisely. A lot of people think they must "check" those and are unaware what can happen (60FPS patch and online racing for example). But this is not depended for the GPL Demo. A new thread about a readjusted GEM package ;)

#44 Michkov

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Posted Jan 11 2016 - 09:52 AM

....continued from above

View PostStefan Roess, on Jan 10 2016 - 01:36 AM, said:

Sure I will do.
I can also create a domain and host the new demo.
That would be awesome.

View PostBernd Nowak, on Jan 10 2016 - 06:56 AM, said:

I would like to add one or two tracks where we have permission and which have a great online and offline ranking. Ideas or proposals?
Something well know, new and shiny? The demo should grab the the attention of people, no? Spa67 is out, too hard to get to work reliably IMO. Monza 10k is a favourite of mine, as is Dundrod which is a beauty fits the era but less well known. Also the question if Jim Pearson would agree to its use that fashion. All in all I wouldn't include more than 5 tracks to keep the size down and drive people to the forums if they want more.

View PostM Needforspeed, on Jan 09 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

With alls the sims on the PC market now, and all the tracks they have, I think if we want the installer a tool to get newcomers interested in GPL, it needs at least the 11 Original tracks . Bugatti wld replace Rouen. So for a short time , they ' ll have more tracks to tests, and more time spent on the asphalt, before they put an appreciation on GPL.

View PostPete Gaimari, on Jan 10 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

What makes GPL above all the rest of the sims out there is the championship season. You need all the tracks for that. How is someone new suppose to race GPL as it was originally intended?

I could only find a few GPL CD's for sale. What happens when they're gone? Where are they coming from to begin with. Someone is making and selling copies of the GPL CD. Who is that?

How would this work? Just include a few tracks of the of the Historical V2 mod in the demo. Then include the rest of the season in the Historical mod. Including all the non championship track. Someone new would have it all with just two installs.

Would that work?

Are these considered Papy tracks? Almost a full season.

Kyalami68
Mexico multi season
Monaco Rocks/Monacane
Mosport Rain
Nurburgring 65-69
Buggati
Spa67
Silver2
Watkins Fall
Zandvoort Multi Season

How do you add the missing Papy tracks to the demo without the CD?

The question of GPL being abandonware has been discussed to death each time it comes up. Yes its out of print and the few 2nd 3rd 4th hand copies circulating around are the only ones available. If it were any other game I would immediately call it abandonware and offer a full version to download. But after what happened to NASCAR Racing 03 I'm a bit hesitant when it comes to Payprus software (and yes I know how paranoid I sound). So any papy tracks not in the original demo are out IMO. Which means from Pete's list Bugatti, Spa67 remain as all others are just graphic updates to the originals. Not sure about Mosport Rain and Monacane though.
In the end people are crafty enough to ask for the original tracks via back channels. Or you just say screw it nobody cares about this game anymore and put them on the track database. I still wouldn't include them in the demo though.

That said looking past a working demo, I can imagine addon packs which would provide the mods and their respective seasons tracks in a all in one installer.

#45 fajanko

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Posted Jan 11 2016 - 11:20 AM

View PostMichkov, on Jan 11 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

That said looking past a working demo, I can imagine addon packs which would provide the mods and their respective seasons tracks in a all in one installer.

Great idea!




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