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Chaparral 2F Detail


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#21 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Nov 29 2014 - 10:09 AM

I don't get the link. All the video showed is a 50's version of how a torque converter works.

#22 Bob Simpson

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Posted Nov 29 2014 - 10:12 AM

I can't imagine anyone ever driving a race car where the timing of the shifts (particularly the down-shifts) are not precisely controlled by the driver.  That just doesn't make sense.

Edited by Bob Simpson, Nov 29 2014 - 10:13 AM.


#23 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Nov 29 2014 - 10:57 AM

I can't either in those days. It can be done, and is done today with computers, but certainly not in the old days.

#24 Paddy the Irishman

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Posted Nov 29 2014 - 10:59 AM

I tend to agree, so perhaps why they 'had to adapt' I suppose.  

Try the 2F on automatic see how you get on.!


I did some more Googling and came on http://ashcom.homest...m/elford2j.html a good read. but if you don't have time to read the lot, the excerpt that, I think bears on it is from paras 11-14.  (I tried to copy and paste, but I can't copy white type)

:dino:




#25 MECH

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Posted Nov 29 2014 - 11:28 AM

Just copy it in notepad and from there to the forum :)


Tell me about the cars automatic transmission:  "It was a semi-automatic transmission, it wasn't fully automatic.  It had a three-speed transmission with a torque converter and a lock-up at 5,000 rpm.  It was quite complicated to get it running.  The steering column went down between your two feet so the left foot could only work the brake and the right foot could only work the gas pedal.

Was driving a car set up that way something of a shock to you? "By sheer luck, really, a year earlier I had a bad accident at the Nurburgring in the Grand Prix, which destroyed my shoulder.  I was in physical therapy for weeks, suffering day after day.  At that time, Grand Prix drivers all used to have a complimentary car from the FORD motor company in Great Britain.  We could have what we liked and, as I had a wife and a couple of kids then, I had a big Zodiac, which was the top of the line sedan in England.  The car was an automatic and I had never had an automatic car before so while I had it I thought I'll learn to brake with my left foot.

"I had never done it before so it took me about three months to really learn to do it efficiently.  Now I do it automatically every time I get in a car with an automatic transmission. I always break with my left foot now.  I wasn't doing it in anticipation of the ride in the Chaparral; I just decided I was going to learn how to do it.  When it came time to drive the 2J of course, I was ready for it, as I had no trouble with it.

Did the cars transmission put you at a disadvantage at the start? "At Road Atlanta, Denny Hulme was in the first McLaren and Peter Gethin was in the second one and they all blew me away at the start.  I remember that, at 5,000 rpm's the transmission dogs would just lock up.  From there on it was solid drive and that went all the way up to 7,600 rpm, which was about maximum in those days. One of the problems was we only had three speeds while the McLaren's and the Lola's all had four speeds.  So it didn't matter where I was on the pole because two or three cars would just blow me away at the start.


#26 Paddy the Irishman

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Posted Nov 29 2014 - 11:49 AM

Thanks Mech, I will remember that.  Just to add,that was a quotation from Vic Elford about the 2J, but the transmission  would have been the same.

#27 John Woods

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Posted Nov 29 2014 - 01:58 PM

The link goes to the diagram in post #5.
Is that a 2-spd or 3?
Not sure if that was Phil Hill in first video, but whoever, they could not drift at all.

Somewhere earlier today read the three gear cars were set up with equivalent of 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears on a manual shift car. Thus, no hole shots.
The 2-spd shifted up by "automatic override" at redline, or as driver let off revs a bit.
According to this link here: http://www.sportscar...Chaparral2.html

The part some may also find interesting is about driver preference, besides not shifting, for two pedals and left foot braking.

Edited by John Woods, Nov 29 2014 - 03:21 PM.


#28 TvO

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Posted Nov 30 2014 - 03:41 AM

Well it says they did shift it manually, although there was an automatic override if you redlined it. Pretty cool :) .

BTW, in the sixties there was the big Mercedes Benz V8 Rote Sau touring car which ran with a full automatic.

#29 Mark Jones

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Posted Nov 30 2014 - 05:00 AM

Fascinating links, thanks guys.

#30 Nicolas

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Posted Nov 30 2014 - 02:50 PM

So the default GPL setup for manual gears, which requires you to only back off the throttle (auto clutch) would be very realistic for these Chaparrals.

#31 gliebzeit

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Posted Dec 01 2014 - 10:24 AM

... and a REALLY BIG HUG in return to you, Paddy.  It is wonderful to have these academic discussions.  Who knows.... maybe a newly uncovered photo, quote or "return email from Mr. Hall" (MECH) will clear this subject up for us.  :)

#32 John Woods

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Posted Dec 03 2014 - 04:25 PM

View PostTvO, on Nov 30 2014 - 03:41 AM, said:

Well it says they did shift it manually, although there was an automatic override if you redlined it. Pretty cool :) .

Quote

Hall says that not only is the driver able to brake more accurately because he's not shifting...

So guess they did whatever, whenever? Maybe by the time it has three forward speeds they were?

Edited by John Woods, Dec 03 2014 - 04:28 PM.


#33 TvO

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Posted Dec 04 2014 - 06:30 AM

It was my interpretation that in the second quote, with 'shifting' they meant pressing the clutch down. They just moved the stick and that would be it.

#34 John Woods

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Posted Dec 04 2014 - 09:14 AM

Well everyone knows I have no clue most of the time.

So tried a brief test at Zandvoort.
Once getting sense of when it will shift that could be better adjusted to a specific track.

Edited by John Woods, Dec 05 2014 - 09:02 AM.


#35 davef

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Posted Dec 28 2014 - 11:47 PM

Henry Manney's report about the car & race. From the Nov. 1967 issue :)

Attached File  1967 BOAC 500A.JPG   406.15K   39 downloadsAttached File  1967 BOAC 500B.JPG   484.18K   48 downloadsAttached File  1967 BOAC 500C.JPG   224.29K   35 downloads

Edited by davef, Jan 04 2015 - 10:58 PM.


#36 davef

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Posted Dec 29 2014 - 08:52 AM

And video :)

https://www.youtube....h?v=YMTXezcAJto

Edited by davef, Jan 04 2015 - 10:59 PM.





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