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1965 Formula One Season By C.r.o.m.s. (V2.2.0.2)

1965 Formula 1 One F1 CROMS

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#1 Lord

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 10:27 AM



1965 Formula One Season by C.R.O.M.S. (v2.2.0.2)
° ChaosZero, Flying Dutchman, Ozpata, Mgs_ita, Smallblockhero °



Available from May 5th!


  At the time I'm writing this, there aren't lots of Formula One historical mods for rFactor: we are plenty of mods from the new millennium of racing, some great others span between the 1970s and the late 1990s, but I've never saw mods going further beyond the 1967 mod by F1Classic aside from the sadly unfinished 1955 mod by Team Players: this is what appalled our team, like nobody knew Formula One existed before that year, in a certain sense.

   It all started as a dream ChaosZero, a long time friend of mine, had in his mind: he is more into modern endurance racing and started a mod with yours truly called ILMS – International Le Mans Series: it all went well until my life took its toll and I had to leave almost everything in his hands. He made a great mod out of that initial pile of conversions we had at first.
So, he started converting the cars from the F1 1965 mod by Luigi70 and Wookie, which was a conversion for EA's F1 Challenge '99-'02 sim converted from the original mod made for Grand Prix Legends way back in 2004. Soon after, I joined the party by asking him if I could help him converting the cars and providing the physics necessary to the mod, he agreed.

   It was the 10th of February, 2013.

   Just a couple of days after, Smallblockhero (a great American fellow: no-one knows how much I've relied on him on the early stages of developing) offered us his help for conversion and we agreed: his models were straight-up conversions from F1 Challenge, but he knew how to do his work and the first conversions were something that really left us speechless.
  After a little while, a couple of months if I reckon right, I asked Ozpata over at VirtualClassics for a helping hand for technical data about the cars: he was so enthusiast he gave us both hands, he had endless sheets of data, grids, graphics of every sort, lots of them derived by first-hand experience with those cars back in the day. We also had a big push by Lady Luck because I had a very fortuitous chat with Engineer Mauro Forghieri and former F1 World Champion John Surtees in a café in downtown Modena, in which they gave me every sort of info about the data I had back with me and how to correct them where needed.

  COMS (ChaosZero, Ozpata, mgs_ita (me) and Smallblockhero) group was born.

  After 7 months and some agreements with Nil, the DRM group and HistorX modding team, the 1.03 version came out: we were quite pleased by it, but me personally I coulnd't find it quite finished: most of the great modding teams take a year to get something finished and we did everything 5 months earlier. To me, something was a bit off, but we decided to release it anyway and patch it eventually if something new popped up.

  Soon enough, The Historic Simracing Organization - HSO and  F1-S-R forums adopted our mod to run each one a vintage league of their own: there I met DaveSR1 and Flying Dutchman, with the first helping us a lot with tyre physics by making them anew and more realistic than ever and the latter making the greatest classic F1 trackpack you can ever see on rFactor. In HSO forums we've met also JP Campmajo, the author of the great classic Monaco track in the standard form you can see on the 'Net, the track you see in this mod is based on that but it has been heavily reworked by Philrob, MotorFX and François.

  Again, as the leagues continued, the partnership between us and both F1-S-R and HSO got stronger by the day, we were giving each other feedbacks about the mod and everyone sent ideas on how to improve it. Months passed and the leagues unfolded and ended, but the mod contined its developing: soon enough Barcika granted us his East London track to be reworked and used, and the original GPL modders came to us in the person of Bill Guillaume to congratulate us for our work and grant us the release of it but we had to give credits for the original team and the one which made the 2.0 version for Grand Prix Legends. Being absolutely respectful of their work, we agreed to do so.

   Also, back at F1-S-R, Jeeve79 worked hard to make the intro video you see both here and on Youtube, while Jason White made all the skins for their league and corrected the ones in the base mod because of some colour palette problems. In the meantime our group, now called CROMS to include Flying Dutchman (the "R" is for is surname) and reward him for the hard work he did, was proceeding at full speed: it was a continuous flow of data, mod revisions, track revisions, videos and car sounds.

And now, after 15 months, the final result is what you have in your hands: we hope to give you the great passion we have for these little beauties, the big grins we have on our faces while we drive them in four-wheel drift and the great satisfaction a good race can give.

We hope you like this mod as much as we loved to make it.

See you on the racetrack!




In loving memory of Enzo Anselmo Ferrari, Bruce Leslie McLaren and Ruud Dingemans


Trackpack

https://docs.google....EhWb3k1M0U/edit


Carpack

https://docs.google....zg5LTJic0U/edit



EDIT 1 (27-04-2014): Here is the video for the trackpack, I'll leave to you guys the impressions on this marvellous piece of work: https://www.youtube....h?v=mtGiq9EHA4s

EDIT 2 (05-05-2014): Links added to the first post: have fun gents!

Edited by Lord, May 05 2014 - 09:59 AM.


#2 Superswede__

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 10:41 AM

I had a go at rfactor just recently. It's the single most horrible sim I've ever played. The FFB is weird, as it sort of guides you through the track, and the mods are rubbish. Why go to rFactor when there is GPL with an already great 65 mod and far more advanced physics. At least this is how I see it. Not trying to be rude towards you, just so you know.

#3 GrandPrixYannick

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 10:46 AM

I had tried it once as well and I neither were that keen about it. The 65 mod felt much more difficult than in GPL. Even despite they already got the 1950s and 1930s F1 / Grand Prix cars in the game I rather wait right here.

#4 Superswede__

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 10:50 AM

rFactor is the kind of game that believes that difficult means realistic. This is not the case. GPL is difficult, but realistic. While rFactor is just difficult. I'm sticking with GPL and GP4.

#5 Lord

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 12:39 PM

Supersuede, I see where you come from, but could have been a bit more polite: Forghieri and Surtees gave me some data and corrections on this mod when I met them, Oscar Plada (who has worked with these cars back in the day) helped us extensively with this, so please be respectful of the other folk's work. Until now you have tasted only one cake (GPL),once you'll have tasted ours you'll be able to have a full picture on the comparison of the two.

#6 leon_90

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 12:47 PM

I raced a while on the 65 1.03 mod for rFactor. Engines were overheating too easily. Sorry to say (but it is mod team's fault) but that showed a complete ignorance in mechanics, cooling and aerodynamics and how all these works in a (racing) car (of any era).

I sincerely hope you've fixed this for a more enjoyable and proper simulation ;)

Trackpack looks great :) Good colors (rFactor usually tends toward grey tones, which is not good) and sharp textures. I like it.
Is rain now avalaible in rFactor also offline?

#7 leon_90

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 01:04 PM

Anyway, the engine's overheating problem is shared with many other mods in rFactor (and GTR2), not just yours. It is not an attack towards your mod only ;)
Nontheless, it is an unacceptable flaw, more so if you say that you've worked with people like Forghieri. I sincerely doubt that he actually tested the previous 65 mod or that he would agree with how engines were behaving in previous version of this mod.

We have respect for people's work, Lord, or at least I do. But I want modders too to have respect of users ;)

As I said, I hope this has been fixed :)

Edited by leon_90, Apr 29 2014 - 01:05 PM.


#8 Superswede__

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 01:08 PM

View PostLord, on Apr 29 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

Supersuede, I see where you come from, but could have been a bit more polite: Forghieri and Surtees gave me some data and corrections on this mod when I met them, Oscar Plada (who has worked with these cars back in the day) helped us extensively with this, so please be respectful of the other folk's work. Until now you have tasted only one cake (GPL),once you'll have tasted ours you'll be able to have a full picture on the comparison of the two.

I try to be straight forward. And from my previous experience with Rfactor, I don't like the game. Some mods, Like the DRM mod, the 70's F1 mods are great. And I like them. But besides the good mods, most of them are bad. I'm sure the 65 you've created is great, but the game itself ruins it for me. In other words, it's not the mod, it's the software. Sorry for being a bit too straight forward. Do you get me? And I still think it won't get close to GPL's 65, simply because of rFactors limitations. Not because you did it bad, or didn't put enough effort into it.

Edited by Superswede__, Apr 29 2014 - 01:11 PM.


#9 Art-J

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 01:23 PM

Superswede, You're not actually making GPL community any favours with such ignorant and borderline stupid statements (re. FFB and physics), especially if You have limited knowledge about what can be done with rF and GTR2 if right people know how to use the ISI game engine properly. You're somewhat justified if You just had limited experience with a few poor-to-average rF mods and addons (that probably applies to majority of them I admit), but there are some very good ones out there (including historic) and I would encourage You to try out more of them before voicing an opinion.

Now, back to OP - as a long time GPLer (mostly), I don't think I'll use this mod because GPL rendition is still good enough for me. I applaud however any attempt of making mid-60's cars mod for other platforms, because indeed, there's just not enough of these. Plus, I'm very interested in this revised track pack - it will probably be a great addition to my HistoriX install!

Edited by Art-J, Apr 29 2014 - 01:25 PM.


#10 Lord

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 01:41 PM

View Postleon_90, on Apr 29 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

I raced a while on the 65 1.03 mod for rFactor. Engines were overheating too easily. Sorry to say (but it is mod team's fault) but that showed a complete ignorance in mechanics, cooling and aerodynamics and how all these works in a (racing) car (of any era). I sincerely hope you've fixed this for a more enjoyable and proper simulation ;)

Mh. I don't mean to be crass, but please show me your degree in Mechanical Engineering, if you have one as I do. rFactor has it's own limitations (it's impossible to code brake fading, de Dion axles, bow axles and such for example), but it's absurd that an engine shouldn't blow up after going on the last red degrees after 20 seconds at least. Yes, there were some issues on cooling in the 1.03 version, but we revised them to be more manageable in the v2.202: if you always change gear in the red degrees, don't be surprised if your engine won't last a couple of laps. Sadly rFactor isn't like Assetto Corsa, if the calculation is too precise for what the sim can handle, the result is going to be not what you expected, so you have to work within a certain margin of error to make it manageable. And I'm not replying anymore on this side of the topic, if you don't mind.

View Postleon_90, on Apr 29 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Trackpack looks great :) Good colors (rFactor usually tends toward grey tones, which is not good) and sharp textures. I like it.
Is rain now avalaible in rFactor also offline?


It's all work of MotorFX and Philrob, but the greatest role has been played by Flying Dutchman: he really put the tracks in rF to a whole new level ;)
rFactor hasn't got rain, sadly, but what he found is a way better workaround than RFE plugin ;)

Thanks Art-J: I can't force you to use something you don't want to (obviously), but I'm glad you understood my point and yes, these tracks are a great addition to your HistorX install ;)

#11 Superswede__

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 01:43 PM

View PostArt-J, on Apr 29 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Superswede, You're not actually making GPL community any favours with such ignorant and borderline stupid statements (re. FFB and physics), especially if You have limited knowledge about what can be done with rF and GTR2 if right people know how to use the ISI game engine properly. You're somewhat justified if You just had limited experience with a few poor-to-average rF mods and addons (that probably applies to majority of them I admit), but there are some very good ones out there (including historic) and I would encourage You to try out more of them before voicing an opinion.

Now, back to OP - as a long time GPLer (mostly), I don't think I'll use this mod because GPL rendition is still good enough for me. I applaud however any attempt of making mid-60's cars mod for other platforms, because indeed, there's just not enough of these. Plus, I'm very interested in this revised track pack - it will probably be a great addition to my HistoriX install!

I never mentioned GTR. And what you just wrote, is what I mean. I'm happy with what I have, but it's good work from him and his team. And personally, I think the FFB is very weird. Now, let's not start a comment war or anything? This is not youtube. I'm sorry for seeming stupid, ignorant etc. It wasn't of my intention to be that. I just said what I thing the game is like.

#12 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 02:22 PM

View PostSuperswede__, on Apr 29 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

View PostArt-J, on Apr 29 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Superswede, You're not actually making GPL community any favours with such ignorant and borderline stupid statements (re. FFB and physics), especially if You have limited knowledge about what can be done with rF and GTR2 if right people know how to use the ISI game engine properly. You're somewhat justified if You just had limited experience with a few poor-to-average rF mods and addons (that probably applies to majority of them I admit), but there are some very good ones out there (including historic) and I would encourage You to try out more of them before voicing an opinion.

Now, back to OP - as a long time GPLer (mostly), I don't think I'll use this mod because GPL rendition is still good enough for me. I applaud however any attempt of making mid-60's cars mod for other platforms, because indeed, there's just not enough of these. Plus, I'm very interested in this revised track pack - it will probably be a great addition to my HistoriX install!

I never mentioned GTR. And what you just wrote, is what I mean. I'm happy with what I have, but it's good work from him and his team. And personally, I think the FFB is very weird. Now, let's not start a comment war or anything? This is not youtube. I'm sorry for seeming stupid, ignorant etc. It wasn't of my intention to be that. I just said what I thing the game is like.

You don't go to someones house, and :crap: on the floor. No one is twisting your arm to drive this mod. Drive GPL, and be happy.

#13 Superswede__

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 02:24 PM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Apr 29 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

View PostSuperswede__, on Apr 29 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

View PostArt-J, on Apr 29 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Superswede, You're not actually making GPL community any favours with such ignorant and borderline stupid statements (re. FFB and physics), especially if You have limited knowledge about what can be done with rF and GTR2 if right people know how to use the ISI game engine properly. You're somewhat justified if You just had limited experience with a few poor-to-average rF mods and addons (that probably applies to majority of them I admit), but there are some very good ones out there (including historic) and I would encourage You to try out more of them before voicing an opinion.

Now, back to OP - as a long time GPLer (mostly), I don't think I'll use this mod because GPL rendition is still good enough for me. I applaud however any attempt of making mid-60's cars mod for other platforms, because indeed, there's just not enough of these. Plus, I'm very interested in this revised track pack - it will probably be a great addition to my HistoriX install!

I never mentioned GTR. And what you just wrote, is what I mean. I'm happy with what I have, but it's good work from him and his team. And personally, I think the FFB is very weird. Now, let's not start a comment war or anything? This is not youtube. I'm sorry for seeming stupid, ignorant etc. It wasn't of my intention to be that. I just said what I thing the game is like.

You don't go to someones house, and ::crap:: on the floor. No one is twisting your arm to drive this mod. Drive GPL, and be happy.

Yes. I am so sorry for my stupid behaviour. Please forgive me? I'm young, I still have much to learn about when to open my mouth hehe.

#14 leon_90

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 02:42 PM

View PostLord, on Apr 29 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

Mh. I don't mean to be crass, but please show me your degree in Mechanical Engineering, if you have one as I do. rFactor has it's own limitations (it's impossible to code brake fading, de Dion axles, bow axles and such for example), but it's absurd that an engine shouldn't blow up after going on the last red degrees after 20 seconds at least. Yes, there were some issues on cooling in the 1.03 version, but we revised them to be more manageable in the v2.202: if you always change gear in the red degrees, don't be surprised if your engine won't last a couple of laps. Sadly rFactor isn't like Assetto Corsa, if the calculation is too precise for what the sim can handle, the result is going to be not what you expected, so you have to work within a certain margin of error to make it manageable. And I'm not replying anymore on this side of the topic, if you don't mind.

I can show you a pic of the degree anytime but I hope we do not arrive to that ;) First of all, let me remind that mine are friendly comments. I know that they may be rude, but it is because of a general trend I see in mods that I absolutely hate, let me be sincere. But my intent is to help, not to destroy.

I do not like the fact that you do not want to reply anymore about the subject, but I can understand that right now you may feel quite disappointed since you were all happy about this announcement and comments here have not been so positive. So I want to remind you also all the good things I found in the previous version of your mod, and that as you pointed out some faults are due to the ISI engine which has it's flaws and respect to which modders have nothing to be blamed about.

The 65 mod for rFactor is quite fun and challenging. I really liked it because textures were good and not basic conversions or porting like those I've seen in some other mods. Sounds are really good too, giving quite the sense of immersion. Physics, in my opinion, is quite good too. Cars handle pretty realistically given the kind of chassis, the engine and the weight. There are specific carsets for each race, so to give historical credit to every single race, and at the same time a general carset, good for every race. There are cars not present in GPL 65 like the Ferrari 158, the Alfa, and some others I don't remember now. I liked very much the mod and I have it still installed in my rFactor, and that's a good thing if you think that I have left installed only the '71 F1 mod and your '65 F1 mod, won't you agree? They are quite fun.
Songs chosen for the main menu simply rocks :)

So your previous work is actually a really good work and one of the best mod avalaible for rFactor, and in fact the community saw this and has given proper credit from what I've seen to the work ;) :)   ( when I say yours of course I mean of the team also, I know that there is all a team behind this and so compliments have to be given to all for the good work)

But allow me to say, that the cooling problem was and is still today unacceptable. I can understand it is partly fault of rFactor itself but then you say to me: but it's absurd that an engine shouldn't blow up after going on the last red degrees after 20 seconds at least.

Well it depends. If the car is moving why should it blow? It's being cooled by radiators and so from air taken while moving! If the car is not moving than yes of course it will blow.

Then again you say if you always change gear in the red degrees, don't be surprised if your engine won't last a couple of laps.

And why would this happen? Given that red line is at 10500 rpm which is maximum engine's rpm number, and I'm changing in between 10000 rpm and 10500 why should it blow in a couple of laps? It should, if I'm standing still (which is not the case here, as we are assuming I'm moving) or if I'm shifting at 15000 rpm at least, which in rFactor is not possible because it does not allow to overevving this way from what I know. The engine is cooled! It won't blow up, unless cooling does not work anymore or other problems related to the engine start showing up (oil, plugs, valves). Shifting on the red line does not make an engine blow, and even more so if we are talking of a couple laps. If it would be so, then how would engine brake work? Engine brake pushes the engine to max rpm limit when not using pedals brake but no engine would blow for that. Someone gave an answer to this saying that it is because they are old engine. That's why I was saying that modders should respect users. I'm not an idiot, no engine would blow given those reasons, even the one of a Ford T or any other car, even the first ones from late XIX century, because it is the way they work. Stressing the engine by pushing the rpm to the red line increases the mechanical stress, but in no way it degrades it (and so fast).

You have a degree in Mechanical Engineering so I know you understand what I'm saying here :)

You said that this problem has been fixed, so I'm happy ;) This means that, together with the trackpack, this is gonna be a great great mod :)
There is no need to answer me about this, and for me also the subject is closed but If I have offended you anyhow I apologize. I see you are Italian too so: Ti chiedo scusa, dovessero esserci ulteriori incomprensioni ne discutiamo anche per messaggio privato senza problema poiché è mio interesse chiarirmi ;)

For rain, what do you mean by a better way than RFE Plugin? You lads are using a new developed plugin for rain?? :) :)

#15 silence

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Posted Apr 29 2014 - 02:45 PM

...

Edited by silence, Apr 30 2014 - 10:13 AM.





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