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#1 lizard

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Posted Nov 20 2020 - 08:47 AM

Hi

As I now seem to spend half my life on GPL I thought I might splash out on a fancy monitor.  As I know nothing about these things, am hoping for a bit of help from you chaps.  

This is what I had in mind.

Technical specifications for SAMSUNG C34J791 Quad HD 34" Curved LED Monitor - White & Silver
OVERVIEW Display technology AMD FreeSync Curved radius 1500 mm Resolution Wide Quad HD 3440 x 1440p Screen size 34" Screen technology LED PICTURE QUALITY Dynamic contrast ratio Mega Native contrast ratio 3000:1 Response time 4 ms Brightness 300 cd/m² Viewing angle 178° / 178° Refresh rate 100 Hz CONNECTIVITY Audio output 3.5 mm jack x 1 Connections - HDMI 2.0 x 1
- DisplayPort x 1
- Thunderbolt 3 x 2
- USB Type-C x 1 AUDIO Audio power 14 W Speakers 2 GENERAL Manufacturer's guarantee 1 year Weight 9.6 kg Dimensions 516 x 808 x 309 mm (H x W x D) Box contents - Samsung C34J791 Quad HD 34" Curved LED Monitor
- Power cable
- HDMI cable
- Thunderbolt 3 cable
- Quick setup guide
- Install CD
- Warranty card VESA wall mount dimensions 100 x 100 Wall mountable Yes Colour White & silver

This costs approx £700 in the UK.  Pleased to hear your comments and advice.

Lizard

Edited by lizard, Nov 20 2020 - 09:00 AM.


#2 Cookie

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Posted Nov 20 2020 - 10:54 AM

I am happy with my 34" 2560x1080 LG flat Monitor ~300€  for only GPL!
Runs fine with a GTX 1060.

The size is great and I wouldn't want a curved one  - sitting 60cm away. Afaik GPL is made for a flat screen ;)

Edited by Cookie, Nov 20 2020 - 11:06 AM.


#3 GPLaps

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Posted Nov 20 2020 - 10:58 AM

I have a flat (non curved) 34" 3440x1440 LG monitor. I love it and wouldn't replace it with anything else (maybe VR someday). Works well with GPL as long as you use the new rasterizers and the no letterbox patches.

#4 Millennium

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Posted Nov 20 2020 - 11:23 AM

I would look for a 144hz qhd ultrawide, it matches better with the 36 fps of GPL. It does make a subtle difference in my experience.

Myself I use a curved 34 inch 2560x1080 LG monitor with 144hz and Freesync. (1080p makes it easier to run modern games in high framerates too.)

#5 blackskull101

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Posted Nov 20 2020 - 11:59 AM

The only thing I can say is - check what is the matrix technology. VA matrix is known to be not very good for gaming because of the "Ghosting effect".
Yes, manufacturers say that they have improved response times and so on and that's probably true, but still...
Maybe the best option for gaming is the good old TN matrix - plus TN monitors are a bit cheaper than others.

Comparison between different matrix technologies:
https://www.tnpanel.com/tn-vs-ips-va/
In any case, have a lot of fun with your new monitor and GPL :up:

Edited by blackskull101, Nov 20 2020 - 12:01 PM.


#6 one2fwee

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Posted Nov 22 2020 - 06:30 PM

I would not recommend ultrawide monitors, they are a fad.
You would be much better off with 3 individual screens, then you can angle them and gain a much better view. Unfortunately, GPL does not have proper triple screen support, so in that game the "correct" experience with triple screen is to place all the screens in a plane. However for things like assetto corsa, rfactor 2, automobilista (i think?), iracing etc that do have triple screen support, the difference will be amazing.

I did have pictures to demonstrate this but they got deleted.

Here is a video that shows the difference: https://www.isrtv.co...cing-explained/
Ignore his comments about needing a really powerful setup... etc

It is possible that multi-view could be hacked into games the same way they are hacked for widescreen support, but i imagine it would be difficult. You have to create 3 cameras, one for each screen, where as on an ultra-wide screen (or 3 screens in a non-triple screen game), there is only one camera/viewport.
Everything is rendered to look correct only when you are looking at the centre of the screen. As you get further to the edge, or the FOV is higher, this high FOV is representing your peripheral vision, which is why you get massive amounts of distortion and stretching. Having 3 viewports and angling them allows you to rotate each view so that the eyepoint for the side screens focuses on the middle of each screen, giving you much greater surround viewing, much bigger angles and far less distortion.

Actually i think there may be some software to hack games to do this as for projector screens there is software for spherical projection that basically takes the output from multi-view games and warps it all together. Of course i am not sure whether this software just warps "what it has" or whether they hacked a directx / opengl wrapper to force more cameras. I have no experience with it unfortunately. But i will say, unless they can add more cameras, it won't look "proper".
GPUs do not actually support spherical or cylindrical projection, so this is how they must achieve it.

But yes, i would strongly dissuade against ultra-wide. You can see examples of the stretching in some of the images in the link.

Someone did actually "hack" together a gpl setup with proper triple screen: https://www.youtube....h?v=AYteSA25Q2E
The problem is, they did this by using 3 pcs, running 3 copies of gpl, creating special camera views for the side screens, and joining an online server (probably lan) with the side screen views "spectating" the player.
So as you can imagine, it's not really practical or a proper solution. It looks nice though! (also their FOV is way too high :P )

Edited by one2fwee, Nov 22 2020 - 06:35 PM.


#7 Cookie

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Posted Yesterday, 09:00 AM

Sorry to say - but Lizard asked for a 34" 21:9 Monitor - what is wrong with it? Not everybody is able to place 3x27" monitors.

"they are a fad" - what does this mean technically?

Some of us who own such a thing answered positive and are happy with it. I do active online racing with it...

Maybe you are right with such extreme wide monitors... (49" 5120x1440, 32:9)

PS
I appreciate your work for GPL and use your FOV calculation
My FOV is 64 and the size enables me to see both mirrors on my screen!
Perfect for the hairpins!

Edited by Cookie, Yesterday, 09:04 AM.


#8 Millennium

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Posted Yesterday, 09:44 AM

I love my ultrawide and like Cookie says if you set the correct fov the view is not stretched.

It's also much easier to setup than triples which have triple the amount of cables, you get bezels and you will spend a very long time calibrating them to look the same.
Triples are awesome but in my view too much of a inconvenience to consider them as an option for myself.

Edited by Millennium, Yesterday, 09:46 AM.


#9 DavidG

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Posted Yesterday, 01:59 PM

I have one of those lizard, or at least a virtually identical model, and I think it’s brilliant. I don’t agree it’s a fad at all; I’d even go for a mega-wide next time, for the slightly wider view. I couldn’t imagine trying to use a mere widescreen monitor now, it would seem so restricted.

I wouldn't worry about the curve, it’s very shallow and simply helps keep the outer edges within an acceptable viewing angle. You’re better with a curved one than a flat one in my opinion. It certainly doesn’t wrap around, and isn’t a triple-screen replacement as such, but a great comprise, in an easier to manage setup.

I’ve never noticed any ghosting and I’ve not experienced any issues with stretched screens (apart from GPL's menus). Though I only really play more recent titles these days (rFactor, AMS & Project Cars – all versions 2 of course).

I’m running mine through a GTX1080 and get good frame rates in all my titles, with pretty high settings. I can get 60 FPS in GPL running in OpenGl, 3440 x 1440, in ‘no letterbox’ mode, with a full field of AI at the new Monza track. I just wish I could get the AI to actually race in 60 FPS mode! D3D doesn’t work at all, but just results a small image in the top left of the monitor in any ultra-wide resolution.

I’d agree with Millennium though about 144Hz probably being smoother. I certainly feel that GPL in 36 FPS seems slightly less smooth than on my previous monitor (which was 75Hz). Though that may be because the difference between 36 FPS and the 100+ that most other games run in is just more noticeable. It may also allow you to run with V-sync on, as i get a lot of screen tearing with my setup.

Edited by DavidG, Yesterday, 02:23 PM.


#10 Cookie

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Posted Yesterday, 03:24 PM

@David for me the 4:3 aspect ratio of the GPL menu is a must. You get it by setting the "keep aspect ratio" in NV settings.

I just bought a new office monitor, and found that these new monitors have internal settings wich keep aspect ratio or do not!

#11 M Needforspeed

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Posted Yesterday, 04:15 PM

View PostMillennium, on Nov 23 2020 - 09:44 AM, said:

It's also much easier to setup than triples which have triple the amount of cables, you get bezels and you will spend a very long time calibrating them to look the same.
Triples are awesome but in my view too much of a inconvenience to consider them as an option for myself.


  No, at least with my triple (see the monitors brand on my profile), the bezel correction has been quick and easy to set and test. Faster than setting the NVidia surround to enable the game display on the 3  screens.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Yesterday, 05:16 PM.


#12 M Needforspeed

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Posted Yesterday, 04:27 PM

I think the thing is simple : if you have enough space in front of you and budget for a triple ( get rather  IPS panels/144 Hz, but most of today gaming monitors have those features), go for it.Use the same monitors ( because of the color settings and other characteristics))

The side distortion in GPL is not only very sufferable, but in fact you can see sections of tracks and cars you won't see otherwise. As in RL your eyes view angles see cars passing you on each side, you will have the same experience with a triple

for instance at Spa, before entering Honeywell corner, I can see cars going in the return straight long long after Stavelot;even if your eyes focuses on the track in front, they  perceive it as they would in RL.With the new GPL tracks add ons , and track makers work at GPLR, the track FB has been adjusted very far in front. And the triplescreen experience benefit from those latest GPL improvements, with all the memory and GFX/CPU power we have now. With a very large or an ultra wide screen, I wldn't see them  as much and as far in the track  return

Latest Montjuich trackside objects,woawh !! .... you will get a new immersive experience with most of the tracks.

And you have more flexibility to set your FOV/POV ranges  while at the same time seeing objects on the side.Thks to Lee latest tools he released at the right moment.Lee NoLetterBox is another perfect feature for a triple, as it enlarge the vertical view.  

You won't loose details, but gain more with the crispness of the 3D objects and cars, cockpit, because of the number of pixels ( 7680 X 1440 = ??...). NVidia AA range of settings keep all the track edges, lines, car and cockpit shapes smooth as silk.Thanks to Stefan Roess for his settings advices !

Another nice feeling is that your body, your ass / seat on fast curves seems moving in coordination with your car .Exhilarating ! As in a real car, your cockpit and instruments, gauges, because of the size displayed, blend more with the steering wheel.

Motor racing triple screen videos  aren't that good to get the idea about what you'll see, as the camera is set behind the driver. While in reality, you have a 4 meters large movie at around a 80/90 cm distance from your head !


But the downsides of a triplescreen are :

1 - the motion sickness .You should get the habit after a while, but some reported  they cldn't ! .... Others don't suffer at all....  In my case, i suffered from motion sickness a lot,depending on the track ( Avhenisto was the worst, by far !!) but now I am very comfortable. The brain get used to it it seems. ( If you don't get it after a while at Avhenisto, you are ready for a very nice ride for certain for most of  the others courses, Nurburgring and Monaco included !!)

2 - If you like watching replays, you will have to edit most of the cars and TV1/TV 2 track cameras focus.

3 - Relearning some of your braking and apex zones, but for a more enjoying racing "on a larger track" ride.

4 - Another thing of little annoyance  is at the first install,  the time spent to replicate twice all the numerous screen settings you prefer and youhave just set in the first monitor.( Not the bezels adjustements, that are very easy to set with the NVidia control panel )

5 - There is distortion on the far sides, but around the bezels area where the 3 screens images blends together naturally, distortion level is very low,then you won't be disturbed at all while concentrating on your racing.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Today, 06:25 AM.


#13 one2fwee

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Posted Yesterday, 08:21 PM

View PostCookie, on Nov 23 2020 - 09:00 AM, said:

Sorry to say - but Lizard asked for a 34" 21:9 Monitor - what is wrong with it? Not everybody is able to place 3x27" monitors.

"they are a fad" - what does this mean technically?

Some of us who own such a thing answered positive and are happy with it. I do active online racing with it...

He didn't specifically ask for a 21:9 monitor, he just mentioned he was getting a new monitor and with that budget you could also get triple screen, that's all.


When i say that they are a fad i mean they are hyped a lot in the gaming media and pushed a lot by the manufacturers. They are very expensive also.

I have no doubt you are happy with it, and for GPL, triple screen or ultrawide makes no difference really because it doesn't support proper triple screen. However if you are also running games that do support proper triple screen then the view is a lot better.
If you also do not have room then fair enough, though the difference can't be that much between ultrawide and triple screen.
Of course a benefit is that you don't have bezels, though bezels are a lot smaller these days to where i don't consider it that much of an issue, as they are not even in the centre of your view anyway.

The one thing that is definitely a fad is the curved screens. No games support cylindrical rendering. If they did, it would be even better than triple screen, and spherical rendering even better than that. As i said in the previous post, projector setups actually support warping to these, but i think it might be implemented as a bit of a hack, warping multi-screen setups together.
Anyway, all of this is moot because the curve on the screens is far, far too shallow. For cylindrical rendering to work, the viewer needs to be sitting in the very centre of the circle, and with the curve being so shallow, i dread to think how big the radius is - 10, 50, 100m? I don't know! But the curve would have to be a lot bigger for it to be feasible and even then, because you can't "alter" the amount of curve, it would only work when you are the ideal distance away.

Despite what you may think, the side edges of the screen are distorted. This happens with all rectilinear projection. As the angle of FOV increases (therefore, as you get closer to the edge of the screen), the amount of distortion increases. All flat views have this distortion, they only look correct when your eye is focussed on the very centre of the screen. What proper triple screen support does is allow for 3 separate cameras all with 3 separately rotated eye-points, so instead of having one big FOV screen, you minimise the distortion by having 3.
If you put all 3 screens in a plane then you effectively have the same as an ultrawide screen, and will get the same distortion in the side screens. This is because the eyepoint is defined as the point where the player / camera intersects the plane of the screen perpendicularly. If you have all of the screens flat, in a row, this eyepoint is the same for all 3 screens - the centre of the middle screen. What this means is that there is actually an ideal angle for the side screens to minimise distortion in games to do provide proper multi-view support. This is one where the angle places the very centre of each side screen perpendicular to you, so the eyepoint for it becomes its centre. Thankfully you can calculate this, although it still looks a lot better even with any angle of side screens.

Look at the side screens in both images in the link to see how stretched the side screens are in the "unsupported" photo. Strictly speaking, you should actually have all 3 screens in a plane to be "accurate" in an unsupported game, but i found that having them still with an angle was perfectly acceptable.

Now, vr is arguably the best solution overall, but i have not tried it and also gpl does not support it... although gpl supports track ir, so it makes me wonder why you can't just have "2d vr" where each eye is presented with the same view. That said... maybe that would make your body get really confused and feel sick, i don't know.




So get whatever you have budget for. The most important thing is to have the biggest screen size you can have and put it as close to you as is comfortable, so that you can have the highest overall FOV. If you are just playing gpl then okay, it doesn't support triple screen properly anyway. Of course it is not impossible that it could be hacked in in the future.
It might actually be cheaper in this regard just to get a normal 16:9 screen but with a bigger size so that the width comes out the same, but you gain some vertical FOV. Whether that is a pc 1440p panel or a 1080p or 4k tv, who knows. But it might be cheaper. If you are dead set on only having one screen then i would strongly consider that option. But yes, if you can get a bigger monitor or tv that might even be a better option. If you got a 1440p panel then of course you will be losing some resolution, but then if you get a 4k screen you would actually gain a small amount of horizontal resolution as well as a huge amount vertical resolution and FOV.
For me, even 16:9 is not a visually pleasing aspect ratio. 16:10 or 4:3 were much nicer, but unfortunately you cannot get 16:10 screens really anymore.

So maybe a 4k tv or monitor with low input lag could be better if you are set one one screen.

Something far more important is getting a screen with a very low input lag - whether this is a pc monitor or tv, try and find one that has been tested. This is extremely important.

#14 M Needforspeed

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Posted Today, 12:39 AM

Ultrawide with 7680 width, if you can find one, would be at a very very expensive price that can't compare with triple screens that cost let say 600 USD X3 = 1800 USD with all the latest features, IPS, 144 hz, N Vidia G Sync native,low input lag, full range of monitor settings.

But Lizard Samsung UW34" is at 830 USD . So more affordable than a triple, unless if he had gone for a cheap 27" monitor.And if he plays with a simulator seat, a support for the 3 screens is required.

In fact, manufacturers when they promote "Ultra Wide" are cheating : with 34", the vision in front of you will not be what human eyes are capable of.

27" X 3 = 81"

81"/34" = 2.38,the number speaks for itself.That's ain't the same gaming experience in front of your monitor

I play only GPL, and what counts is what is your global feeling. Using triple,GPL is better than it has ever been in the past.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Today, 06:33 AM.


#15 M Needforspeed

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Posted Today, 04:05 AM

View Postone2fwee, on Nov 23 2020 - 08:21 PM, said:

I have no doubt you are happy with it, and for GPL, triple screen or ultrawide makes no difference really because it doesn't support proper triple screen.

Sorry, but I can only disagree.See post above.

It is not because there is a common point shared by the two solutions, that the rendering of GPL or any other game "not compatible" with the triple screen will look the same.Objects, tracks, racing line, cars ect... will be smaller on an ultrawide and you won't be so much immersed in your car while driving


For those who play in a racing seat in an adjustable position more or less comparable to those of the racing drivers of the 60s / 70s, the triple screen solution is the natural complement and shld be the way to go to get the best of one gaming  installation. Because the viewing distance will be around 80/90 cm, so that the entire image can be seen at the ends of the screen.( 90 cm is the correct distance with triple 27", between 80cm and 85 cm for a triple 24")

On the other hand, and there are still a lot of them, those who play with their screen and steering attached on a desk, and on a seat with their body angled at roughly 90° with the floor, would be too close to the screens. With their eyes at 60 cm from the center screen, they will find it difficult to see the sides clearly, and the playing experience will then become negative, or at best useless.Then, a 34" "Ultra Wide",will suit best their gaming rig.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Today, 06:34 AM.


#16 DavidG

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Posted Today, 01:17 PM

View PostCookie, on Nov 23 2020 - 03:24 PM, said:

@David for me the 4:3 aspect ratio of the GPL menu is a must. You get it by setting the "keep aspect ratio" in NV settings.

I already have that set Cookie. The menus are the correct aspect ratio when the game first loads, but, after I’ve been out onto a track, they then stretch to fill the screen. I don’t find it to be a huge issue personally, it’s more important how the in-game screen looks. To be honest, my gaming time is limited these days and I don’t play GPL much. I’d actually given up on it completely at the start of the year due to frame rate issues, but I gave it another go yesterday before replying to this post and managed to resolve the problem. I’m more than happy that the game is running well now and distorted menus are a very minor inconvenience.

#17 lizard

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Posted Today, 03:48 PM

Lots of great information, thank you all so much for your help.  I hadn't considered the 3 monitor option as I don't really have the room.  34" flat or curved is about the largest I can go to in the space available.  I had assumed that a curved screen would give a more immersive experience, reading the above I am not so sure!  Before I spend my money I will look a bit further into this and will let you know the outcome.

Lizard




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