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Driving 55 Mod Tips Needed

gpl 1955 1955 mod 1955 how to drive

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#41 Arturo Pereira

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Posted May 28 2020 - 10:46 AM

View PostPTRACER, on May 28 2020 - 03:04 AM, said:

It's funny you say that, because i find the 250F to be very neutral handling and the W196 to prefer being sideways....

Well, I could not find a single picture of the W196 going sideways while there are lots of the 250Fs going that way. Perhaps it was a Fangio thing ;)

#42 PTRACER

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Posted May 29 2020 - 04:08 AM

View PostArturo Pereira, on May 28 2020 - 10:46 AM, said:

Well, I could not find a single picture of the W196 going sideways while there are lots of the 250Fs going that way. Perhaps it was a Fangio thing ;)

I'm just going by the feeling of the mod cars, which are of course only an approximation of the real life machines.

#43 Arturo Pereira

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Posted May 29 2020 - 08:51 AM

View PostPTRACER, on May 29 2020 - 04:08 AM, said:

I'm just going by the feeling of the mod cars, which are of course only an approximation of the real life machines.

That is ok. We talked about the same point when developing the mod´s physics, and as it happened with other mods, books, pictures and movies can give many clues about how cars were setup and driven. I had a talk by phone with a man named Clemar Bucci who drove F1 and sportscars in the late 1950s, and he gave important information about this topic, and also about how they delt with brakes, heat, etc..
One last thing: as it happens nowadays, different tyres can make the cars handle different. In 1955 Mercedes used Continental, Maserati used Pirelli and some Dunlop, Ferrari used Englebert and so on.

#44 jgf

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Posted May 29 2020 - 10:24 AM

Another consideration is the mindset of racing over the years.  For many years racing cars were all about speed - how fast can it go.  Tall narrow tires were the norm for decreased drag and rolling resistance, major developments were primarily in engine power;  beyond increased power F1 cars of the mid fifties were not that different from those of the mid thirties.  It was  the same at Indianapolis, more power equals more speed, straight line speeds increased greatly from the thirties to the fifties but there was hardly any improvement in cornering speed.  Then someone moved the engine to the other end of the car, lowered the center of gravity, and noticed that the marginally increased drag and rolling resistance of short fat tires was more than offset by increased grip and cornering ability.  Straight line speeds did not increase dramatically from the fifties to the seventies but lap times lowered due to improved cornering ability.

Racing F1 or Indy in the fifties was a drag race from corner to corner with the driver doing the best he could through the turns.  It is no wonder many of the best drivers of the era were built like Fangio and Foyt.

#45 Arturo Pereira

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Posted May 29 2020 - 10:31 AM

View Postjgf, on May 29 2020 - 10:24 AM, said:

Another consideration is the mindset of racing over the years.  For many years racing cars were all about speed - how fast can it go.  Tall narrow tires were the norm for decreased drag and rolling resistance, major developments were primarily in engine power;  beyond increased power F1 cars of the mid fifties were not that different from those of the mid thirties.  It was  the same at Indianapolis, more power equals more speed, straight line speeds increased greatly from the thirties to the fifties but there was hardly any improvement in cornering speed.  Then someone moved the engine to the other end of the car, lowered the center of gravity, and noticed that the marginally increased drag and rolling resistance of short fat tires was more than offset by increased grip and cornering ability.  Straight line speeds did not increase dramatically from the fifties to the seventies but lap times lowered due to improved cornering ability.

Racing F1 or Indy in the fifties was a drag race from corner to corner with the driver doing the best he could through the turns.  It is no wonder many of the best drivers of the era were built like Fangio and Foyt.

RIght. Add to that that in the 30s tyres were made of natural rubber and the drivers of the Mercedes and Auto Union cars, the most powerful cars by far (around 550/600hp), should be very careful with the throttle. And even with that care, tyres didn´t last a complete race.

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Edited by Arturo Pereira, May 29 2020 - 10:32 AM.


#46 PTRACER

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Posted Yesterday, 12:04 AM

View PostArturo Pereira, on May 29 2020 - 08:51 AM, said:

That is ok. We talked about the same point when developing the mod´s physics, and as it happened with other mods, books, pictures and movies can give many clues about how cars were setup and driven. I had a talk by phone with a man named Clemar Bucci who drove F1 and sportscars in the late 1950s, and he gave important information about this topic, and also about how they delt with brakes, heat, etc..
One last thing: as it happens nowadays, different tyres can make the cars handle different. In 1955 Mercedes used Continental, Maserati used Pirelli and some Dunlop, Ferrari used Englebert and so on.

I remember Clemar Bucci had his own website, but he passed away in 2011. That phone call must have been a long time ago! Do you have any notes/recordings of those calls? i am sure they would be of historical interest to people.

Anyway, given the age of GPL's engine, I think the physics team did the best job they could. The car handling is not that far off say, the 250F in Assetto Corsa. The driving technique is pretty similar at least.

#47 PTRACER

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Posted Yesterday, 02:01 AM

View Postsyd_drake, on May 20 2020 - 05:28 AM, said:

OK, thanks for all the advice. Brakes are supposed to be calibrated ok, I mostly drive Assetto Corsa these days, and I can brake normally with most cars there. I also use full rotation on my G25 in AC, but had to reduce this to 210 degrees in GPL, the car just wasn't rotating enough.
So engine braking, early downshifts, only lightly braking?

View PostKARTM, on May 20 2020 - 06:09 AM, said:

i have a  g920  so the brake shouldnt be a problem ,but yes for the steering , i use a 240 deg  setting on the Logitech software but  dont forget the  steering ratio in the gpl car setup ,  around 1/15 work fine for me

Do you mean 240 degrees in total, or 240 + 240 = 580 degrees? Both seem a little unusual....I run a 440 degree setup and the default 20:1 steering ratio for most regular circuits (except those with tight hairpins). I barely use more than 45 degrees of steering angle to get through most corners.

Why don't you guys knock out a few laps around the new Goodwood, upload the replays here and we can have a look at where you are going wrong?

#48 KARTM

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Posted Yesterday, 03:34 AM

240 degrees total ,   and in the the setup 15:1  ratio  and even lower 12:1  on track like Monaco with tight hairpins

#49 PTRACER

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Posted Yesterday, 04:17 AM

View PostKARTM, on May 30 2020 - 03:34 AM, said:

240 degrees total ,   and in the the setup 15:1  ratio  and even lower 12:1  on track like Monaco with tight hairpins

That might be why you are understeering then! What about steering linearity slider in the Options menu?

#50 KARTM

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Posted Yesterday, 05:18 AM

the understeering is natural , those  car must be driven smoothly , they wont recover frome big sliding angle , sometime you have to provoke some sliding  when you enter  the curve to kill the understeering , as for the exit  powerslide must be minimal , i use around 40% of linearity

Edited by KARTM, Yesterday, 07:29 AM.


#51 Arturo Pereira

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Posted Yesterday, 11:56 AM

View PostPTRACER, on May 30 2020 - 12:04 AM, said:


I remember Clemar Bucci had his own website, but he passed away in 2011. That phone call must have been a long time ago! Do you have any notes/recordings of those calls? i am sure they would be of historical interest to people.

Anyway, given the age of GPL's engine, I think the physics team did the best job they could. The car handling is not that far off say, the 250F in Assetto Corsa. The driving technique is pretty similar at least.
We started working with the 1955 mod in 2005 or 2006 I think. It was one of the first mods after the 1965 F1. For many reasons, the developement could not continue as we expected. I talked with Mr. Bucci probably in 2008 when I discovered his son´s garage located close to my home. He was working in 2 Mercedes 300 SLR and I could not avoid to ask about those cars when I saw the rearend of one of them. When the guy told me he was Mr. Bucci´s son, I told him about the 1955 mod and he passed me his father´s phone. I talked with Bucci 3 or 4 times, but I didn´t keep a recording. His health was not the best, so the calls were relatively short and I tried to go right to the point after explaining to him why I was interested in that information: handling, brakes, etc.. He was very helpful for sure.
About notes, I posted them in a Yahoo group we used for the mods by then and didn´t keep my copy :(

#52 Stefan Roess

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Posted Yesterday, 01:07 PM

 Arturo Pereira, on May 30 2020 - 11:56 AM, said:

...I was interested in that information: handling, brakes, etc.. He was very helpful for sure.

Do you remember what he said about the brakes? Where the brake of the Mercedes really so bad?

#53 Arturo Pereira

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Posted Yesterday, 08:56 PM

Bucci drove a Gordini T16 in 4 F1 races in 1954 and a Maserati 250F in the 1955 Argentina GP. He talked about the type of brakes those cars had, how they had to use them and to take care of them so they were in good shape for a whole race. The cars he drove were not first class, so I guessed he should have extra care with them.
He also talked about the conditions in the cockpit, specially about how hard they were if the temperatures were hot considering the engines were at the front..
For what I can remember, he only said the Mercedes were much better cars than the rest. "Reliable". We had very good sources about how the Mercedes brakes worked since Mercedes used to keep records of how their cars had to work at each track, using which gear, and where the braking sections started and finished.
We started working hard with the mod in 2013, more than 2 years after Bucci passed away, so we didn´t have more chances of getting more 1st. hand information from him. The first beta package of the mod was released for the team in September, 2013. The last release candidate in April, 2017.

If what he said wasn´t posted in the yahoo groups, it could be somewhere in the 1955 mod private forum.




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