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65Mod Steeringwheel Error Fix


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#61 Border Reiver - guest

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Posted Jun 27 2011 - 02:55 PM

Hi All,

I have looked at the replays posted by il_lupo_mannaro and Stefan with my locally installed carset and I get no errors with the steering wheel on my system.

Attached is my Brabham folder from the full65 carset.

I would be interested to know if this fixes the problems that Stefan and il_lupo_mannaro are seeing.

For the record I am using this car folder and I use the v1 D3D rasteriser.

Still puzzled by this, as I cannot replicate the fault with my carset and those replays.

Cheers,

Rob

EDIT: File removed due to error pointed out below by Martin.

Edited by Border Reiver, Sep 25 2011 - 02:31 PM.


#62 Border Reiver - guest

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Posted Jun 27 2011 - 03:28 PM

Further to the above:

There is definately something odd about the #18 car. From the look of the bra18.3do file it attempts to be a copy of the Anderson AI car for the player to drive, but, there is something odd as in the replay that Stefan posted, this car shows as being the default Brabham car (brad.3do) which is used when stuff goes wrong. There might also be a couple of other odd cars in this way. Some of the numbered cars that get used online do not follow the standard format for online cars, but instead use these copies of AI cars and AI skins, and I think, although I am not certain, that this might be what is upsetting GPL in some cases. Also RaceCon doesn't seem happy trying to open these 3dos. They are fine in a hex editor though.

Still curious if my files work for anyone else, and if we are looking at a D3D vs OGL issue perhaps or something else. Either way, there are some things in the 65 carset that don't seem quite "right" or "standard".

EDIT Again: Further interesting discoveries. I just tried my locally installed lite65 carset with the above replays. With the lite65 set I again get no steering wheel errors and all of the cars have the correct car numbers, including car #18. Presumably this is because in that carset the standard online car 3do numbering convention was followed?


Rob

Edited by Border Reiver, Jun 27 2011 - 04:20 PM.


#63 Frenchy

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Posted Jun 27 2011 - 09:47 PM

Thanks for looking in to this Rob.

I tried your Brab car folder and the errors still persist when using D3Dv2 and OGLv2 but not with D3Dv1 nor OGLv1.

I did notice some other anomolies with OGLv1 such as a Ferrari with no textures (all white) forward of the cockpit.

Cheers
David

#64 Border Reiver - guest

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Posted Jun 27 2011 - 10:10 PM

Hmm, interesting...  :report: :think:  

It is very interesting that it is rasteriser dependent and also that other errors show up as well. I suspect that there are probably quite a few competing bugs in that carset and depending on your choice of rasteriser it will be either more or less tolerant of some of these errors.

Obviously it would be good to come up with a definitive and clean carset, but I guess that will need a fair bit of trial and error and a good bit of work.

Hopefully Martin will have some additional thoughts based on the above findings though.

Rob

#65 MECH

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Posted Jun 28 2011 - 12:23 PM

View PostBorder Reiver, on Jun 27 2011 - 10:10 PM, said:

Hmm, interesting...  :report: :think:  

It is very interesting that it is rasteriser dependent and also that other errors show up as well. I suspect that there are probably quite a few competing bugs in that carset and depending on your choice of rasteriser it will be either more or less tolerant of some of these errors.

Obviously it would be good to come up with a definitive and clean carset, but I guess that will need a fair bit of trial and error and a good bit of work.

Hopefully Martin will have some additional thoughts based on the above findings though.

Rob

I doubt that a rasterizer would make a difference.
The more i see the mentioned problems here the more i think it is a mapping issue.
The fix i posted was a problem with the car main 3do and did solve my problem.
The problem is that faulty ai 3do's cause the same behavior.

The fact that you can open an ai 3do with a hexeditor and not with racecon is indicating that the filestructure is corrupt.
I've seen it with other mods too that ai 3do's got messed up by editing it in a hexeditor.

GPL is very sturdy with corrupt ai 3do files e.g. it won't crash if it can't read a string table properly.
It just skips the string line and re-uses a texture which is why you get these weird textures.
With corrupt ai 3do's i mean where someone altered a string but ignored the length or did something else that messed up the string table.

Finding the problem file is not that easy because there have been several files posted in the past.
I'll have a look at the ai 3do's of the full carset since you mentioned that the lite didn't display the error :)

Edited by MECH, Jun 28 2011 - 12:34 PM.


#66 Border Reiver - guest

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Posted Jun 28 2011 - 01:29 PM

Yup. It just seemed odd though that I have never seen this steering wheel mip issue myself using D3D v1 and yet the same files with other rasterisers show up the problem. I have however also seen the converse happen and in something I tested a 510 x 512 mip slipped in and bang, D3D ctd'd every time, but OGL v2 was perfectly happy and so the others I was testing with couldn't understand why I was having problems.

I am pretty sure that the lite version is the most pure/normal in the sense that the online car numbers are just copies of the bra1.mip and bra1.3do renumbered for each car. With the full version I think that they tried to get clever and reuse the renamed AI 3dos in place of bra16.3do, bra17.3do and bra18.3do to add some variety of cars and colours for online, rather than just copying the skins and then numbering the files normally. However, in this process, something else seems to have gone horribly wrong as 3dostrn shows the bra16.3do, bra17.3do and bra18.3do as being redundant, and in any case I think that there are other errors in these 3dos as well. I also have a horrid feeling that this might be lifting a lid on a can of worms as I suspect that if you dig a bit deeper the same trick might have been pulled in other slots of the carset as well...

Rob

Edited by Border Reiver, Jun 28 2011 - 01:29 PM.


#67 MECH

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Posted Jun 28 2011 - 01:52 PM

View PostBorder Reiver, on Jun 28 2011 - 01:29 PM, said:

Yup. It just seemed odd though that I have never seen this steering wheel mip issue myself using D3D v1 and yet the same files with other rasterisers show up the problem. I have however also seen the converse happen and in something I tested a 510 x 512 mip slipped in and bang, D3D ctd'd every time, but OGL v2 was perfectly happy and so the others I was testing with couldn't understand why I was having problems.
That may be related to the draw order these new rasterizer uses.
Iirc the tires are loaded last which means the v2 will show gaps in them when the cpu has problems with memory usage.
Just guessing here ;)

View PostBorder Reiver, on Jun 28 2011 - 01:29 PM, said:

I am pretty sure that the lite version is the most pure/normal in the sense that the online car numbers are just copies of the bra1.mip and bra1.3do renumbered for each car. With the full version I think that they tried to get clever and reuse the renamed AI 3dos in place of bra16.3do, bra17.3do and bra18.3do to add some variety of cars and colours for online, rather than just copying the skins and then numbering the files normally. However, in this process, something else seems to have gone horribly wrong as 3dostrn shows the bra16.3do, bra17.3do and bra18.3do as being redundant, and in any case I think that there are other errors in these 3dos as well.
Well 3dostrn isn't 100% flawless, i may have added a few bugs to proof i'm human  :D

View PostBorder Reiver, on Jun 28 2011 - 01:29 PM, said:

I also have a horrid feeling that this might be lifting a lid on a can of worms as I suspect that if you dig a bit deeper the same trick might have been pulled in other slots of the carset as well...

Rob

Yeah i hear what your saying.
The moment i said i was going to have a look at it i asked myself what might surface as well :)
I already found some strange things in the ai 3do's used and fear that a complete redo might be needed.
I'm afraid that i just lack the time to undertake such a venture.
I would stall other editing stuff for the new mods way too much  :duh:

#68 ginetto

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Posted Jun 28 2011 - 01:55 PM

I too have the issue in rast v2 and not in v1.
Looking at the post above where a replay is posted with a brabham at monaco, I decided to DL it and watching it, I had a flagger guy instead of the wheel; I then fix all the brabham AI and online 3dos deleting the ones that had shorter or longer entries, copy paste and changed the lines to the new ones.
The result was that I now have the same part of engine texture posted above :rolleyes:

It may be to consider also the possibility that some track has mips with the name of cars mips and that could screw up things even more :think:

Edited by Ginetto, Jun 28 2011 - 01:57 PM.


#69 Border Reiver - guest

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Posted Jun 28 2011 - 03:59 PM

View PostMECH, on Jun 28 2011 - 01:52 PM, said:

View PostBorder Reiver, on Jun 28 2011 - 01:29 PM, said:

I am pretty sure that the lite version is the most pure/normal in the sense that the online car numbers are just copies of the bra1.mip and bra1.3do renumbered for each car. With the full version I think that they tried to get clever and reuse the renamed AI 3dos in place of bra16.3do, bra17.3do and bra18.3do to add some variety of cars and colours for online, rather than just copying the skins and then numbering the files normally. However, in this process, something else seems to have gone horribly wrong as 3dostrn shows the bra16.3do, bra17.3do and bra18.3do as being redundant, and in any case I think that there are other errors in these 3dos as well.
Well 3dostrn isn't 100% flawless, i may have added a few bugs to proof i'm human  :D

That wasn't what I meant. I don't think it is a 3dostrn problem, I think it is showing that there is something iffy with those 3do files that makes them non-normal!



View PostMECH, on Jun 28 2011 - 01:52 PM, said:

View PostBorder Reiver, on Jun 28 2011 - 01:29 PM, said:

I also have a horrid feeling that this might be lifting a lid on a can of worms as I suspect that if you dig a bit deeper the same trick might have been pulled in other slots of the carset as well...

Rob

Yeah i hear what your saying.
The moment i said i was going to have a look at it i asked myself what might surface as well :)
I already found some strange things in the ai 3do's used and fear that a complete redo might be needed.
I'm afraid that i just lack the time to undertake such a venture.
I would stall other editing stuff for the new mods way too much  :duh:

I realise. I picked this up again a couple of days ago as I had finished a phase of work on something else and wanted a change of what I was thinking about for a day or two. :) I also remembered that I said I'd look into this again as it would be nice to fix if it is easy. ;) I am sure I'll come back to it at some point. A "quick fix" might be to copy a standard braX.3do, do the renaming properly for that to bra16.3do - bra18.3do and make the necessary mips for that as well. At least that should all load correctly and if it works then it is a starting point. These mips could be copies of the Anderson "18a" mip etc., just named in the normal way as bra18.mip. That might make things happier. That is also low tech enough that I ought to be able to put together the bits to try that and see if it makes any difference.


Rob

#70 MECH

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Posted Sep 17 2011 - 06:20 AM

I did me some investigating as well and found that indeed the brabby has some online 3do's which are just plain wrong.
I used a downloaded carset v2.0.1 and cleaned up the main car 3do's and compared files and referrals for the full65 set.

The bra17.mip is missing in this set. This can be a problem when it loads this car.
It will probably default back to the brad.3do :think:

The bra18.3do had a plaace.mip in the string table after inserting an 'f' in between all strings shifted into it's place and the bra18.3do was functionable again. So i think Rob's idea of the car no18 being the problem might be correct :)

The lite set seems ok at first glance.

I've changed the zip in the first post and added the files for the brabham.
Please add these files to your full65 brabham slot and let me know if the problem is fixed :)

I'll have a look at the other slots as well.

@Rob, it would be best if you removed your Brabham zip because it has the same error.
Most likely the fault will be active when the no 18 online car is used.
The other problem with the helmet being in the tire node was also a cause.
So if you apply all the files in the zip in post #1 hopefully the problems are over.



P.S. If you download car add-ons and overwrite the files i just fixed you might introduce the problem again.
I'm also not sure wether a server would cause the problem as well. It would seem that the server assigns acar and that the 3do and mips of the player are loaded. So if someone joins the server as the 18th car and didn't fix his car set he will be responsible for the faulty mips.

Edited by MECH, Sep 17 2011 - 06:30 AM.


#71 MECH

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Posted Sep 17 2011 - 06:55 AM

Sry, i forgot about a problem with the murasama slot.
The online 3do's no11 & no12 where faulty as well.
I've changed the upload.

If anyone has some use of this; find attached all mip referrals for the ai or online 3do's :)

Attached Files


Edited by MECH, Sep 17 2011 - 07:05 AM.


#72 il_lupo_mannaro

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Posted Sep 17 2011 - 10:30 AM

It works!! I attached a replay: you can check brabby nr. 14  
Thx Martin for your great support :thumbup:

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#73 MECH

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Posted Sep 17 2011 - 01:43 PM

View Postil_lupo_mannaro, on Sep 17 2011 - 10:30 AM, said:

It works!! I attached a replay: you can check brabby nr. 14  
Thx Martin for your great support :thumbup:

Great that it seems to fix things.
Hopefully nothin' else pops up  :D

#74 MECH

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Posted Sep 19 2011 - 11:50 AM

Ok, so i did some testing on another one's replay (Thx Martin Hunt) which also had a steering wheel error.

It pretty much confirms that the murasama online 3do's where a cause for some errors as well.
I tested with a v2.0.1 carset and used a replay which had a steering wheel error.
It was until i added the murasama files the error went away.

So to sum it up the 65mod had a bunch of errors which could cause this error to surface:

1. The brm, coventry, ferrari & lotus all had a helmet assigned to the front left wheel.
2. The online 3do mapping of the brabham no# 18 was flawed and it lacked a bra17 & bra18.mip
3. The online 3do mapping of the murasama no# 11 & 12 was flawed.


No.1 was responsible for offline errors.
No's 2 & 3 where responsible for online errors.

So all in all i'm not surprised it took a while to get it right ;)

#75 Border Reiver - guest

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Posted Sep 25 2011 - 02:35 PM

Thanks Martin!

I am also glad that I was in part correct about the weirdness going on, although your researches went far deeper than mine were able to.

Thanks again for sorting that out. :)

Rob




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