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Is It Possible?


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#1 fajanko

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Posted Jan 16 2012 - 03:37 AM

Is it possible to be a citizen of European Union but not any of its country?

#2 becky

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Posted Jan 16 2012 - 05:07 AM

I´m not really an expert in those things, but I just had a short look on wikipedia and it seems that it is not possible, since it is not an own citizenship, but only one which you can have parallel to your national citizenship.
But it is possible to have the British or Danish citizenship (both members of the EU) without beeing a citizen of the EU, as long as you are living on the Faroe Islands or Greenland (in the case of Denmark), or on the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands (in the case uf the UK), since that are no terrytories of the EU.
But as I already said, I´m no expert. :rolleyes:

#3 fajanko

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Posted Jan 17 2012 - 03:35 AM

Thanks for the answer, becky!

#4 becky

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Posted Jan 17 2012 - 06:58 AM

View Postfajanko, on Jan 17 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

Thanks for the answer, becky!

Wellcome! Reading your question I was interested myself. :wave:

#5 fajanko

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Posted Jan 17 2012 - 08:01 AM

Meanwhile I've read about how could I resign from Hungarian citizenship. What I found is that I must be already a citizen of another country and my resignation must be accepted by the president of Hungarian Republic ('Hungary' only at the moment). As I understand there's an international (United Nations) contract what says that a country can't let any of its citizen to be stateless.

Now I try to figure out if Vatican owns its part of Rome as an independent state or just uses it as a land owner. If the second case stands I assume it would be okay to be a stateless European citizen too.

#6 becky

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Posted Jan 17 2012 - 08:38 AM

View Postfajanko, on Jan 17 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

Now I try to figure out if Vatican owns its part of Rome as an independent state or just uses it as a land owner. If the second case stands I assume it would be okay to be a stateless European citizen too.

As far as I know it is an independent state with the pope as the sovereign. On the other hand the Vatican is not a part of the EU, although they have own Euros (like San Marino and Monaco.
But why do you want to get rid of your Hungarian citizenship?

Edited by becky, Jan 17 2012 - 09:57 AM.


#7 jgf

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Posted Jan 17 2012 - 11:39 AM

The Vatican is a sovereign nation, with it's own government, police, and military;  it is not part of Italy, though completely surrounded by Rome.  At 0.2 sq.mi. it is the world's smallest country, roughly a third the size of the next smallest, Monaco. (Trivia I learned while researching a project for MS Flight Sim.)

Dual citizenship regulations vary greatly by country;  for example, in the US:
"A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.  U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship." (I had to research this recently when my citizenship came into question because I have a British birth certificate.)

My European friends tell me EU citizenship is automatically granted to anyone who is a citizen of a member nation, but since national citizenship is a prerequisite there can be no EU citizenship alone.

#8 Phil

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Posted Jan 17 2012 - 11:51 AM

View Postjgf, on Jan 17 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

The Vatican is a sovereign nation, with it's own government, police, and military;  it is not part of Italy, though completely surrounded by Rome.  At 0.2 sq.mi. it is the world's smallest country, roughly a third the size of the next smallest, Monaco.
That's debatable, The Holy See isn't recognised by the UN, it's an observer state like Palestine.

But yeah, an EU citizen is by definition a citizen of a nation state belonging to the EU.

#9 becky

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Posted Jan 17 2012 - 11:56 AM

View Postjgf, on Jan 17 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:


My European friends tell me EU citizenship is automatically granted to anyone who is a citizen of a member nation...

With the exception of the areas I mentioned in my first post (maybe also French overseas teritorries).


View Postjgf, on Jan 17 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:


...but since national citizenship is a prerequisite there can be no EU citizenship alone.

Would see it the same way. ;)

#10 jgf

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Posted Jan 17 2012 - 12:17 PM

View PostPhil, on Jan 17 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

View Postjgf, on Jan 17 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

The Vatican is a sovereign nation, with it's own government, police, and military;  it is not part of Italy, though completely surrounded by Rome.  At 0.2 sq.mi. it is the world's smallest country, roughly a third the size of the next smallest, Monaco.
That's debatable, The Holy See isn't recognised by the UN, it's an observer state like Palestine.

But yeah, an EU citizen is by definition a citizen of a nation state belonging to the EU.

The Vatican did not wish to be viewed politically, therefore it has not applied for UN membership.

#11 Phil

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Posted Jan 17 2012 - 12:43 PM

View Postjgf, on Jan 17 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

The Vatican did not wish to be viewed politically, therefore it has not applied for UN membership.
With respect, the Holy See lobbied many times to have its observer status upgraded. It also used its UN powers to condemn the classification of rape as a war crime, and to denounce the use of condoms for HIV prevention. Not political eh?

It isn't a state because it's not recognised widely enough, and it hasn't a permanent population, in the sense that it governs a religion rather than its defined territory.

#12 Phil

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Posted Jan 17 2012 - 01:03 PM

View Postbecky, on Jan 16 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

But it is possible to have the British or Danish citizenship (both members of the EU) without beeing a citizen of the EU, as long as you are living on the Faroe Islands or Greenland (in the case of Denmark), or on the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands (in the case uf the UK), since that are no terrytories of the EU.
But as I already said, I´m no expert. :rolleyes:
Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are not part of the UK. They're crown dependencies, part of the British Isles, but the British Isles is not an EU member state. UK is. So no contradiction.

#13 becky

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Posted Jan 17 2012 - 01:29 PM

View PostPhil, on Jan 17 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are not part of the UK. They're crown dependencies, part of the British Isles, but the British Isles is not an EU member state. UK is. So no contradiction.

Thank you for clarification,it was a bit misunderstandable in the German wikipedia where I looked after. Could be updated. :thumbup:

#14 Phil

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Posted Jan 17 2012 - 01:44 PM

Yeah it's confusing because "British" can mean:

-from Great Britain
-from United Kingdom (Great Britain + Northern Ireland)
-from British Isles (United Kingdom + crown dependencies + thousands of islands & islets)

#15 fajanko

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Posted Jan 17 2012 - 02:00 PM

View Postbecky, on Jan 17 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

But why do you want to get rid of your Hungarian citizenship?

Future looks pretty dark here at the moment. A new regime is being (was?) built with no real opposition. 60 percent of people would not vote to anyone if elections were held today. Taxes are raised for the low and low-mid class (but cut for the elite and the high-mid class) while our money are flown away. I am quite sure that we will leave the Union soon, which will put the country onto the edge. A nation which is depressed and divided...

So, while I don't want to leave this land and emigrate to anywhere, I also don't really like to be a part of the present country as a system.


+
Thanks to all for the Vatican info!




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