14 replies to this topic

[John Woods]

Is it a race to the finish or what?

Have recently noticed, surely not a new thing, there is sometimes a frantic rush off the grid to a T1 or T3 where it is practically impossible to take the turn two cars wide at speed.

The dangers in this first-to-breach dive into survival or nothing else is compounded by the braking technique, typical of some who are fast enough to be at the front, of waiting until the last possible moment, (likely practiced with hours of solo training), then slamming the brakes causing a four wheel lock up that ends just in time to make the turn.

If things are too close, (not a good thing with 36fps GPL collision physics), someone will have to yield or everyone will have to be very very lucky given this insane way to begin a long race.

In the meantime, those at the back might not have been able to see the flag. All they know is by the time they see cars moving in front they are already even farther behind. Time to catch up before the inevitable slow down at the first bottleneck.

In the effort to earn a good spot on the grid, many drivers have qually setups with low fuel loads and race setups with fuel for the laps to the finish. The weight difference between the two effects braking distance significantly, especially on heavier cars. Drivers who train with emphasis on fast laps and qualifying well may not train with the same enthusiasm for braking hard with full fuel into the first turn.

When the first tight squeeze is a narrow 90 at the end of the long front straight, (topical hint), everyone trying to catch up is likely looking for tire smoke before going into panic braking mode. Then an instant after that they see the wrecks up ahead splattering left and right and they can only hope.

With this kind of first lap routine, what are the odds the entire field makes it around one lap?

The analogy should not be of salmon throwing themselves upstream.

Perhaps those at the front of the grid have some responsibility to agree, out of respect, to slow the pace for the entire field ahead of and through the first turn?

Otherwise, those at the front run as much risk as any of being taken out by flying cars.


Just sayin
Tell me it doesn't happen

Edited by John Woods, Nov 19 2020 - 11:19 AM.

[Cookie]

For me the last 10 minutes of quali are race fuel laps - I never make a special setup for quali

It is good to know the drivers you race with - if you know the others are fair and save - we go 3 wide in a 90°

But as in my last race with this new guy (-50 years) - a wide righthander is not wide enough and you get bumped from the track

In Funliga we use TS and this helps a lot to avoid bad scenes.

Edited by Cookie, Nov 19 2020 - 12:04 PM.

[Stefan Roess]

Like Axel I also have only one setup for qualifying (practice) and race.
And I also try to do some laps with full tank.

Here you can see many starts of our GPLRACER league online races that take 45 min., Pro mode (No Shift-R):
https://www.youtube....aUT4Xy5g/videos

Most of the time our starts are good.
We also use wide 1x1 grids on the server for safer starts.
And as Axel already said it helps when you know the drivers around you and can predict how they will drive.

I don`t think that it would be good that the front of the grid should slow the pace for the entire field ahead of and through the first turn. A rolling start only works with much discipline and GPL does not have that feature implemented like other games. I think that would cause more mayhem.

Edited by Stefan Roess, Nov 22 2020 - 11:13 AM.

[Bo Bruce]

of late, i think oAo starts are above average, and somewhat safe, tho we do have the occasional bump yet.. for me, its the start of lap2 that seems to more fraught with careless overtakes, and loss of awareness~ a false sense in most cases that 'ok the tires are warmed'  and they're not yet at racing temps... chaos ensues ~

[Millennium]

Take a look at this:
https://youtu.be/Pd9DSl074I0?t=81

Isn't that just beautiful?

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Too bad that the guy in the Cooper got short braked into a shunt at 06:45 on the clock.

[paul skingley]

To finish first, first you have to finish

The worst thing for online racing is the reset button.

Pro damage with no reset makes better online racers.



Paul

[jgf]

As in RL, you cannot win the race on the first lap, but you can lose it.

[lalb2001]

Cookie, on Nov 19 2020 - 11:56 AM, said:

But as in my last race with this new guy (-50 years) - a wide righthander is not wide enough and you get bumped from the track

I somehow feel addressed... ^^

[Claudio Pablo Navonne]

paul skingley, on Nov 19 2020 - 03:34 PM, said:

To finish first, first you have to finish

The worst thing for online racing is the reset button.

Pro damage with no reset makes better online racers.



Paul

Agree

[Bo Bruce]

the thing is (as i've posted at least once before) real racing in the period of GPL was dangerous. the brotherhood of drivers knew, hung out and respected each other.
still, many died. for whatever reason, but rarely thru colliding with one another.  

in modern racing we see banzai attempts at overtaking, the thought it 'if there is a gap, you go for it, or you are not a winner'.... collisions and offs occur but rarely are there serious results.
to me it is this mix of 60's cars and modern mentality that cause many of the turn1 lap1 collisions. Internet lag might be a factor (small) however giving room could resolve most of them, except (see the semi-quote) any hesitation creates a gap that someone else things they can take advantage of   
impatience is a 2d factor, even short races will be 20 minutes in length, so why throw it all away so early? enjoy the experience - its not like you're going to get a contract w/ Ferrari....
the 3d factor is inexperience. tho we might feel like real F1 racers, the truth could not be further away. we are SIM racers, so all elements SHOULD be taken into account.

just imagine your excitement, and rush of adrenaline causing you lose control, and ram someone and the contact inflicts death with them, yet you are able to continue!
maybe then some small restraint would climb into the cockpit with you, that is, if you could stomach racing again.

[John Woods]

To be more specific and to clarify earlier comments, the idea was not to slow the pace of the field, (even tho I said that), but to suggest given the already frantic circumstance that those in front slow the pace of their braking so instead of going full on at the last possible millisecond maybe consider the potential catastrophic effect that could cause farther back.

On the grid, the driver on pole is fastest. The driver alongside or staggered behind has to have a strategy that allows for the potential of a takeover at the first turn or bottleneck, and will surely practice it and given the opportunity will apply it in the race without hesitation.

Probably that strategy will require a very high risk move that will surprise the driver as much as anyone else if it works, who would then have to defend the position against the already proven faster driver for the rest of the race.

So, an all-or-nothing strategy and a weak defense that likely cannot be sustained.
Seems like a plan.

At the same time, everyone will be thinking about what happens when something up ahead goes wrong.

After a tight T1 if the order does not change then it remains the same as on the grid, no matter how fast or slow the drivers take the turn. The race to the finish is still on.

It has always amazed me when the in r/l alleged to be the best drivers in the world lose a few cars acting stupid on the first turn.

It isn't just a sim thing.

Edited by John Woods, Nov 21 2020 - 09:44 AM.

[Brocky05]

none of you have ever seen a LOPEN race then lol

its all Kamikazi banzai charges everyone will be laughing their heads off the bigger the crash the bigger and louder the laughs

the races are fun they have a yellow flag at half race distance so everyone can catch up there are no points just fun and giggles

i wouldnt want it any other way lol

Edited by Brocky05, Nov 22 2020 - 05:34 PM.

[John Woods]

A very good thing there is more than one league because it gives more options and opportunities for drivers.

Not sure what all the shift-r rules are in different leagues.

When there is no shift-r the few moments spent racing a league schedule are the precious rewards of weeks or months of training.

The reward is not so much to be the fastest as it is to race responsibly, finish the race, and earn the respect of those with you on the grid.

When that reward is denied in an instant, whether just after the flag drops or a few laps from the finish, the trauma lasts for days. And ultimately it is your own fault.

It is no fun.

In this case the cold-blooded real life rule is: Get better and you will have a chance.

Edited by John Woods, Nov 22 2020 - 10:36 AM.

[Arturo Pereira]

Imho, SHIFT-R is not the problem. The problem is the lack of respect for other drivers and to give a damn if you ruin other people´s race. Of course, lack of proper control of the car can help to a disaster.

These problems are shown with SHIFT-R or with Pro damage mainly because with Pro damage you really ruin other guy´s race for good while with SHIFT-R the other guy at least has a chance to finish. Of course this mean to have to check replays and it´s certainly time consuming and boring, but that is a low price to pay to put things into the right place.