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Tasman carset 64-68


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#161 221teddy

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Posted Mar 29 2019 - 03:02 PM

Some weeks ago I found the beautiful Tasman carsets by Keido which I have not seen before because I did not play GPL for almost 13 years. Since I intsalled the Tasman carsets these carsets are my preferred carsets especially the TS68 set. In general the shape of the cars are close to reality. But unfortunately most of the cars provide low resolution skins. The carsets were released in 2009 together with some contemporary fixes. I have not found any high resolution textures or cockpit updates for any of the Tasman carsets 64 - 68. Therefore my question to the community:

are there any recent updates for these classic carsets (without wings) available somewhere? I would be interestet in high res textures and more realistic dashboards. In principle there exist outstanding cockpits for the original 67mod by Laechele, Jackseller, M. Müller and others (e.g. Lotus, Eagle, Brabham, Ferrari, BRM). But since I am not familiar with modding I do not know how to adapt them to the carset.

Another question is the following: are there any activities on the way to adapt the performance of the Tasman cars closer to reality? In principle the performance should be somwhere in between the 66mod and the F2 mod depending on the car. The adaption of the TS67 and TS68 carset to the physics of the 66mod would be more realistic.

In reality the capacity of the cars was limited to 2.5 liter. The power output of the 1968 Ferrari V6 Dino (2.4 liter) was between 285 bhp (early season) and 310 bhp (48V version, late season). The Ford Coswoth V8 Motor (downsized to 2.5 liter) of the 1968 Lotus 49T provided 330 bhp. Both cars ran >300 km/h. The Brabham BT23's were powered by downsized 2.5 l versions of the Repco 620 or 740 or the Alfa Romeo Tipo 33 engines yielding somthing between 270 and 300 bhp. But there also competed succesfully some cars (e.g. McLaren M4a) which complied to the formula 2 specifications with 1.5/1.6 liter Ford, Cosworth, or Climax engines. The majority of all Tasman series cars 64 - 68 was powered by the 2.5 climax FPF engines inherited from the 2.5 liter formula 1 era ending in 1960 (e.g. Cooper T53/55, T62, Lotus 39, Brabham BT4, BT7, BT11, Lotus 18/21 and others). The output should have been approx. 250 to 280 bhp. Beside these the bored up versions of the Climax V8 (Lotus 33, 2.0 liter) and the BRM V8 (BRM P 261, 1.9 and 2.1 liter) engines were raced very succesfully.

#162 webfoot

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Posted Apr 01 2019 - 10:53 AM

 221teddy, on Mar 29 2019 - 03:02 PM, said:

In reality the capacity of the cars was limited to 2.5 liter. The power output of the 1968 Ferrari V6 Dino (2.4 liter) was between 285 bhp (early season) and 310 bhp (48V version, late season). The Ford Coswoth V8 Motor (downsized to 2.5 liter) of the 1968 Lotus 49T provided 330 bhp. Both cars ran >300 km/h. The Brabham BT23's were powered by downsized 2.5 l versions of the Repco 620 or 740 or the Alfa Romeo Tipo 33 engines yielding somthing between 270 and 300 bhp. But there also competed succesfully some cars (e.g. McLaren M4a) which complied to the formula 2 specifications with 1.5/1.6 liter Ford, Cosworth, or Climax engines. The majority of all Tasman series cars 64 - 68 was powered by the 2.5 climax FPF engines inherited from the 2.5 liter formula 1 era ending in 1960 (e.g. Cooper T53/55, T62, Lotus 39, Brabham BT4, BT7, BT11, Lotus 18/21 and others). The output should have been approx. 250 to 280 bhp. Beside these the bored up versions of the Climax V8 (Lotus 33, 2.0 liter) and the BRM V8 (BRM P 261, 1.9 and 2.1 liter) engines were raced very succesfully.

Thanks for the data.  Lots of potentially conflicting information out there on engine performance.  My research notes have the following numbers which differ slightly from yours (not saying mine are any more correct).

Ferrari v6 24v 300 bhp @ 8,900 rpm  (source primotipo)
Cosworth DFV  350 bhp @ 9200 rpm (source Haynes' Lotus 49)
Repco 640 275 bhp @ 850 rpm (source primotipo)
Repco 730 290 bhp @ 8600 rpm (source primotipo)
Repco 830 295 bhp @ 9000 rpm (source primotipo)
Coventry Climax FPF 240 bhp @ 6800 rpm (source grandprixengines.co.uk)
Alfa Romeo Tipo 33 (2.5l) 315 bhp @ 8800 rpm (source primotipo)
Cosworth FVA (1.6l) 222 bhp @ 9000 rpm (source grandprixengines.co.uk)

#163 221teddy

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Posted Apr 01 2019 - 02:10 PM

I think I should give some hints about the sources for the power output figures I mentioned in my post above above (#161):

- the 285bhp/310 bhp for the 1968 Ferrari 246T and 330 bhp for the Lotus 49T are taken out of the book "The V-6 Ferraris of Tasman Cup 1968 - 1970" by Paolo Marasca, mentioned in a chapter where Chris Amon describes his battles against Jim Clark in the 1968 Tasman Races (a very interesting book regarding the Tasman series, its tracks, its drivers, and its history). The figures for the Lotus Ford Cosworth DFV (330 bhp) seems to be realistic compared to the original full size 3.0 liter version with 408 bhp (1967/68) which is well known (comparable output per liter).
- the figures for the 2.5 climax FPF 4 cyclinder inline engines are estimates for their late staged evelopment. In the last F1 season 1960 the output of the engines in different cars was between 240 and 250 bhp/6800rpm (Cooper, Lotus 18 and others; source http://www.dlg.speed...e/cars/cars.php)
- the source for the Repco engines (Brabham) I do not remember but the figures comply to webfoot's data. 275 bhp seem to be realistic to me. 290/295 bhp seem to be a little bit too high since the output per liter is significantly higher than in the full size Repco 740 (330 bhp in the 3.0 liter version, many sources)
- Lotus 33 Climax 2.0 240bhp/8700rpm (F1-Version 1966, source http://www.dlg.speed...e/cars/cars.php). Winner of the 1967 Tasman Cup.
- the bored up versions of the BRM 261 existet with 1.9, 2.0, and 2.1 liter capacacity. The 2.0 liter version is displayed in http://www.dlg.speed...e/cars/cars.php with 275 bhp@11,200 rpm.This was sufficient to win the 1966 Tasman Cup (probably 1.9 liter version).
- the 1.5/1.6 liter engines by Ford, Ford Cosworth and Climax were used in a lot of different F1 and F2 cars in the seasons from 1965 onwards by many manufacturers (many examples in http://www.dlg.speed...e/cars/cars.php). The output was between approx. 200 and 230 bhp. So the specs for the Cosworth FVA (222 bhp/9000rpm) provided by webfoot are typical ones.
- The Tipo33/2.5 liter was originally designed for the Alfa Romeo Tipo 33/2 Daytona in 1968. Power output 315 HP/8800 (http://www.dlg.speed...e/cars/cars.php). I do not know if the specs in the Brabham BT23 (Tasman) are the same since the requirements for a heavyer long distance GT (Tipo 33/2 Daytona) in principle are different than for a light weight formula racing car.

Edited by 221teddy, Apr 21 2019 - 03:24 AM.


#164 221teddy

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Posted Apr 01 2019 - 02:35 PM

In the following link you can find a lot of information regarding the Tasman Series, cars, drivers, and stats.

https://www.oldracingcars.com/tasman/

#165 webfoot

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Posted Apr 01 2019 - 02:48 PM

Thanks 221teddy.  The speed freaks site looks very useful.

#166 webfoot

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Posted Apr 02 2019 - 05:20 AM

221teddy.  My thoughts on your thoughts :D ....

My figures for the FPF (240bhp) are from 1960.  So yes they may have been developed further (just my guess but I would doubt by very much).  The engine was still in use in the Tasman Cup as late as 1969 by Red Dawson's BT7A.
Some info on Tasman FPF development (but no figures) here...  https://primotipo.co...climax-2-5-fpf/
The Lotus Book (S3) quotes factory data of 220-230bhp for the 1966 Lotus 39 and 240bhp for the aborted Lotus 35 Tasman car (built May-July 1966).


Repco 730 at 290bhp.  May be a little high but this is talking about 1969... source is here https://primotipo.co...egans-lotus-39/

Repco 830 at 295bhp.  My guess is this is accurate.  Again this is for 1969.  Sounds like the 830 was a great engine and Repco should have done a 3 litre version of it.  Source info here https://primotipo.co...-car-episode-4/

Alfa Romeo Tipo 33 2.5 litre engine.  My figures are for the engines used by Mildren (in both the BT23 and Mildren Mono).  Since the figures match the GT car numbers and the Mildren's were not an Alfa factory effort, it would seem to confirm (to me at least) that Mildren just bought some (3 I think)  GT engines and put them into the formula cars.
Note in 1969 Max Stewart briefly used a 1.6 litre Alfa Romeo engine in the back of a Mildren/Rennmax chassis.  Currently I am not sure of any details on that engine.  Only raced once before they switched to a Waggot engine.

Thanks again.  The more info the better even if it can sometimes contradict.

Edited by webfoot, Apr 02 2019 - 05:37 AM.


#167 leon_90

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Posted Apr 02 2019 - 01:40 PM

 webfoot, on Apr 02 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

Alfa Romeo Tipo 33 2.5 litre engine.  My figures are for the engines used by Mildren (in both the BT23 and Mildren Mono).  Since the figures match the GT car numbers and the Mildren's were not an Alfa factory effort, it would seem to confirm (to me at least) that Mildren just bought some (3 I think)  GT engines and put them into the formula cars.

Note in 1969 Max Stewart briefly used a 1.6 litre Alfa Romeo engine in the back of a Mildren/Rennmax chassis.  Currently I am not sure of any details on that engine.  Only raced once before they switched to a Waggot engine.

Can't help you guys with the other engines (maybe just Ferrari, I'll check), but I can shed some light into the Alfa mystery. Gardner asked Chiti if he could supply him an engine to race in the Tasman Series. Chiti enthusiastically agreed and supplied him the unit that he developed back in 1963 for ATS, in the 2500 GTS. You can find some general info in this page about the GT (beware, not the S even though some specs are given for that one too):

https://en.wikipedia...iki/ATS_2500_GT

No modifications done, Chiti had in mind developing a 3 liter engine frome that very unit (which served as a base for the 33/Fleròn), but at the time he supplied Gardner with it, it was still untouched. The engine Gardner put in his Tasman racecar had nothing to do with the 33 Daytona engine (if not a father/son relationship, since the Daytona used the same engine the Fleròn had, and that one was born out of this 2.5 unit).

As for the 1.6 engine, just look at the Alfa GTA figures (1.6 litre late '68 version, obviously) and you got what you need ;)

I know this stuff from reading this book, which narrates the history of Autodelta.

Edited by leon_90, Apr 02 2019 - 01:45 PM.


#168 webfoot

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Posted Apr 03 2019 - 02:32 AM

Thanks Leon.

I had seen speculation somewhere on the Internet that Stewart's engine was possibly a GTA. I will assume that theory.

#169 GdeNoronha00

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Posted Aug 30 2019 - 08:15 PM

Hey there, I've decided to go back to GPL after a long hiatus, and I'm impressed with all of the progress that has been made with all the mods and stuff, particularly these carsets of the Tasman Series that went unnoticed when I got introduced
There's one issue that I have, however, and though it might sound like a small nuisance, I don't really know how to fix it
After making the seasons with the 4 tracks available, I've tried to run the championship mode, however, this relegates me to the 65 mod season file
What am I doing wrong? Do I have to edit that season file? Or how can I make those Tasman seasons I've created to run on Championship mode?
Regards, Gabriel

#170 webfoot

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Posted Aug 31 2019 - 05:00 AM

Gabriel,

You are doing nothing wrong.  This is a limitation.  These tasman carsets are not full mods and they use the physics and other features from the 1965 mod (for Tasman 1964-1966) and the original GPL physics and settings (for Tasman 1967-1968).

You can use GEM+ to easily switch seasons files (the name must be 8 characters long).  So 64tasman.ini 65tasman.ini etc. as opposed to 65season.ini for the F1 GP tracks.  These are used for track selection for practice and single races.  

However for the championship tracks a different ini file.  g65.ini for the 1965 mod and gp.ini for the original GPL.  These are "hard wired" into the mod and unfortunately cannot be changed using GEM+.  So to run a championship for the Tasman cars (1964-66) you will need to manually copy your current g65.ini and then replace it with t64.ini etc. as required.  For 1967 & 1968 save and replace gp.ini.

Tasman season and championship ini files are in post #148 above.

All these files are in your gpl \seasons folder and are text files you can edit with notepad.

Edited by webfoot, Aug 31 2019 - 05:02 AM.


#171 webfoot

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Posted Oct 05 2019 - 09:20 AM

Tasman Program Covers 1964-1969 - version 2

Added 2 new program covers plus 1 improved version.  See read me for details.


Attached File  Tasman Program Covers v2.zip   13MB   13 downloads




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