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Revs / Power Bands, Etc


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#61 john roberts

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Posted Mar 12 2018 - 09:18 PM

hi guys ,

what would be interesting is your thoughts about the brm in the 65 mod , some say it can be over revved like some old bike engines . so max revs is so far over peak power that shifting at  max revs will be much slower than a shift at peek power (or just above to allow a drop to next gear , when shifting up ) . discuss .

good luck.

#62 John Woods

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Posted Mar 12 2018 - 09:49 PM

Unfortunately, (or fortunately), not familiar with the 65 BRM.
Sounds like an interesting case given what some say about it.

When power starts falling off its time or very close to time to shift.

Maybe the DFV is special, and the 65 BRM is not, in part because the DFV builds power on up very close to redline.




:D

Edited by John Woods, Mar 12 2018 - 09:54 PM.


#63 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Mar 13 2018 - 08:30 AM

View PostJohn Woods, on Mar 12 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

So you would not be interested in some actual setup numbers for the real 67 Lotus 49?




:D


Only as a curiosity. I've tried every possible combination in my setup and finally settled on what works best for me. I've tried the real car settings as far as we know them, and I didn't like them. The real settings don't transfer to GPL very well. Not for me anyway.

#64 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Mar 13 2018 - 08:33 AM

The 65 BRM is a strange one. It doesn't seem to have any set redline and will rev to crazy rpm with little if any damage. I never thought it was right when I was a tester for the mod. It never bothered me because the Lotus 33 is a sweetheart and I never drive anything else in the mod.

#65 John Woods

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Posted Mar 13 2018 - 09:25 AM

Good answers Pete. Pretty much felt that way all along...that Grand Prix Legends stands on its own so who cares what the real cars did or real drivers did back then.

At the same time, wondered what the cars really were like to drive, how they were set up, and whether whatever they were doing made any sense with Grand Prix Legends.

After all, the base physics and math is the same, but who knows for sure what they were doing.

Lately have been walking back on that a bit when finding things back then often match up with what we have now.
(Sort of validates Grand Prix Legends as a simulator).

Clark said the DFV comes on with a blast of power around 6,500rpm.
That's a common lament with the GPL Lotus, so its interesting to find our car matches the real one in that respect.

Found out just last night reading about Hailwood when his team bought the shell of Clark's car from the year before and decided to fit it with a BRM motor that Chapman told them they would not be happy with it and they weren't.

Maybe because it revved like crazy and didn't go anywhere?

Horsepower is the product of torque x RPM divided by 5252, so a lot of RPM makes up for not much torque, at least on paper.

The chart below is featured here:http://www.intothere..._simracing.html
(great site...click around to find chart on GPL cars pages).

Notice torque peaks out just before horsepower.
Wu-hoo!



:D

Attached Files


Edited by John Woods, Mar 13 2018 - 10:50 AM.


#66 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Mar 13 2018 - 11:46 AM

Interesting chart John, but let's not forget it's for the real Cosworth. I'd like to see what GPL has, but how would we measure it?

#67 John Woods

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Posted Mar 13 2018 - 01:53 PM

Might be a way perhaps using GPLRA on a some averaged dragstrip runs, (as if its a dyno?), but no idea how.

Plus don't you think Papy made the effort to get it all as close as possible, both to actual and ideal?
Just guessing the GPL Lotus is pretty close in base performance parameters at least.



:D

Edited by John Woods, Mar 13 2018 - 01:56 PM.


#68 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Mar 13 2018 - 02:11 PM

He sure didn't do that with the suspension or low speed grip. So, i'm suspicious of everything. I know the one he did in iRacing feels completely different.

#69 John Woods

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Posted Mar 13 2018 - 02:17 PM

Well, me too.
But I think low-speed grip has something to do with very high-speed floating-point equations more than poor code writing.
Seems I have read its still an issue even with more modern sims?


:D

Edited by John Woods, Mar 13 2018 - 02:21 PM.


#70 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Mar 13 2018 - 02:26 PM

We'll never know who got the Lotus right. We have 4 versions now. Only one of them is closer to the real car than the others, but which one? I love GPL, but i'd guess it would be 4th on the list if we're talking about the Papy Lotus and not the V2 version.




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