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To Brake With Left Or Right Foot?


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#31 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jul 17 2014 - 09:38 PM

Yes, the 48 was monocoque.

#32 David Wright Lo67

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Posted Jul 18 2014 - 10:45 AM

The 32 and 35 were monocoque, but monocoque construction did have drawbacks for what were primarily customer cars.  They were more expensive to buy and more difficult to fix in the event of a crash.  Throw in Brabhams success during this period with their tube frame F2/3 cars and Lotus switched back to tube frame construction for the 41.

#33 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jul 18 2014 - 12:50 PM

If I was an owner of a F2 car. I'd prefer a tube frame.

#34 John Woods

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Posted Jul 19 2014 - 12:23 PM

View PostFat Rich, on Jul 17 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

I've seen a couple of videos of iRacing where someone has lost the car, mashed the brake and gas at the same time and the car has magically sorted itself.

Isn't this because effect is to very quickly pull sprung weight back toward centered...irrespective of the situation otherwise? Then release the brakes and everything is on a happy new trajectory?
Seems if you had enough time, were quick enough, and caught it all in time, the same would happen with any car? So maybe not so much just a sim thing?

A.J. Foyt commented in his autobiography that one of his secrets to getting down deep into a turn was balancing the car on entry with squeeze of LFB, btw.

#35 one2fwee

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Posted Jul 19 2014 - 05:13 PM

Well the LFB + right foot jams on the throttle save thing works in real life (in a rwd car) because you are basically forcing the front wheels to lock and meaning that the car will plough straight on heavily in understeer, which will correct the oversteer.

However, in real life, this would wreck your tyres and no doubt not be the best for your brakes either!!

That's the problem with sims, they don't model wear very effectively / punishingly.



With GPL (and possibly other sims), it also appears that if you keep a little bit of throttle on, then move the brake bias towards the rear and LFB, that braking distances are actually reduced from what is possible otherwise.
Obviously this shouldn't be the case but there must be some flaw somewhere in GPL's code that does this.


I guess to really be sure, some kind of benchmarking would be necessary using GPL replay analyser or some such.

#36 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jul 19 2014 - 07:57 PM

A rear BB gets those fat rear tires more involved in the braking.

#37 John Woods

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Posted Jul 19 2014 - 08:04 PM

And maybe a little throttle keeps weight transfer toward front to a minimum, so load is more even on all tires?
Also tightens the suspension?
Plus engine braking when downshifting stops car quicker?

Edited by John Woods, Jul 19 2014 - 08:06 PM.


#38 Fat Rich

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Posted Jul 20 2014 - 03:09 AM

GPL seems more sensitive to weight transfer than most sims so I guess that gas + brakes might trick the game into loading up the rear tires and giving more grip. In reality it would give less weight transfer but also less effective braking so longer braking distances, it would wear the brakes and transmission much more quickly too. Maybe Lee's forthcoming Brake Fade mod should be compulsory!

Also having the front tyres trying to stop the car and the rear tyres trying to push the car probably raises all the tyre temperatures and gives better grip in corner entry, us right foot brakers are probably entering the turn with slightly colder tyres after a long straight and not getting the temperatures up until mid corner.

#39 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jul 20 2014 - 09:16 AM

Giving throttle during braking keeps the diff locked up to make it more stable. Normally, someone who uses a rearward BB will also use a loose diff on the coast side. This lets the car turn in good for all situations that aren't braking. So, the amount of turn in you get with a loose coast side on the diff is controlled with the throttle instead of the setup. A loose diff will take out the understeer everywhere on the track, but during braking the car will be unstable. Especially, when used with a rearward BB. To make it more controllable some throttle is applied to lock up the diff some. It also allows a BB that doesn't lock the front tires.

Does this all make sense to everybody. Using throttle with the braking has many benefits in GPL. It allows a setup that will turn good, and brake better. It's also very unrealistic to how they drove the real cars. It's everybody's choice whether they want to just go fast at all costs, or drive in a realistic manner. I have no bias toward either method. I've done both.

One thing I want to mention. Aliens aren't fast, because they use a certain driving style. They would be fast with either method. They're fast because of hard work, and natural talent. You won't become an alien by using their setups.

#40 Fat Rich

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Posted Jul 20 2014 - 10:03 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Jul 20 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

.....

One thing I want to mention. Aliens aren't fast, because they use a certain driving style. They would be fast with either method. They're fast because of hard work, and natural talent. You won't become an alien by using their setups.

Very true, I downloaded one of Gregor Huttu's setups and was surprised to find it was almost identical to my own setup. And yet he's consistently a few tenths* faster than me in every car, every circuit and every sim.

*a few tenths of a minute faster :yikesss:

#41 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jul 20 2014 - 10:17 AM

He's a few tenths of an hour faster for me.

#42 John Woods

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Posted Jul 21 2014 - 11:37 AM

Has always seemed aliens are faster because they don't slow down as much, or at all, while my brain simply will not be convinced its possible to complete some turn without slowing to a much-less-than-alien speed, all still hanging on trying to not lift.
They flick the wheel once and the car goes exactly where it needs to be at exit without skipping a beat. With me that's always slow down to half a guess and the same question every lap only gets the same answer on average.

#43 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jul 21 2014 - 12:07 PM

Going fast is no secret.

More gas...less brake.  :D

#44 Paddy the Irishman

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Posted Aug 01 2014 - 03:48 AM

A quote from Hap Sharp, taken from the book 'Chapparal' by Richard Falconer.  I like the Jim Hall quote also. :up:

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#45 John Woods

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Posted Feb 23 2018 - 01:53 PM

Pic from Haynes Manual of Lotus 49 r12 foot well showing offset steering column, (for more room to work), and pedal arrangement.

Link to another related thread.



Just a little bump...
:D

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Edited by John Woods, Feb 23 2018 - 01:56 PM.





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