Jump to content


- - - - -

To Brake With Left Or Right Foot?


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1 qwertyce

qwertyce

    Jimmy Clark

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 44 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sicily
  • Interests:gpl
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 16 2014 - 10:23 AM

I have read much time ago that real drivers in '60 years used right foot to brake (throttle and brake were at right of steer shaft, friction at left, so left foot couldn't pass to right side), so I brake by right to drive in realistic way

but now I read in four wheel drift by steve smith:

brake dancing
same deal with braking-the object of the exercise is not to break the wheel loose. Again, the ultimate braking control is your left foot (you're not still braking with your right, are you?), but I'm in no way averse to getting some help from faux ABS.  [...]


I'm confused, is that manual wrong about realism? I'm reading it as an holy bible of GPL...
or am I being wrong braking by right?

Edited by qwertyce, Jul 16 2014 - 10:31 AM.


#2 David Wright Lo67

David Wright Lo67

    Denny Hulme

  • GTLW Crew
  • 443 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL, GTL and P&G
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Jul 16 2014 - 10:47 AM

Steve Smith wasn't looking for the most realistic techniques or setups.  Nor does he say it was realistic to left foot brake.

When GPL came out, wheels were quite rare.  I drove GPL with a joystick until 2001. They were seen as better controllers than a joystick rather than more realistic.  There was no H pattern shift, no clutch pedal and 270 degrees of lock.  It wasn't until the advent of 900 degree wheels with clutch pedals and H pattern gearshifts around 2005 that you could start to think about realism.

Edited by David Wright Lo67, Jul 16 2014 - 10:55 AM.


#3 qwertyce

qwertyce

    Jimmy Clark

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 44 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sicily
  • Interests:gpl
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 16 2014 - 10:59 AM

View PostDavid Wright Lo67, on Jul 16 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Steve Smith wasn't looking for the most realistic techniques or setups.  Nor does he say it was realistic to left foot brake.

When GPL came out, wheels were quite rare.  I drove GPL with a joystick until 2001. They were seen as better controllers than a joystick rather than more realistic.  There was no H pattern shift, no clutch pedal and 270 degrees of lock.

thanks for reply, so I have misunderstood the focus of that manual, because into that guide there are realistic advices by Doug Arnao for setups, I can keep on by right braking...

Edited by qwertyce, Jul 16 2014 - 10:59 AM.


#4 Wile E. Coyote

Wile E. Coyote

    Denny Hulme

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 128 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Sim interest:I am here to spam and wish to be deleted after registering

Posted Jul 16 2014 - 11:15 AM

Wasn't heel and toe the driving technique for advanced racers?

Well at least in Initial D it is. :P

#5 Pablo_Fernandez

Pablo_Fernandez

    GPL Track Maker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 147 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Buenos Aires, Argentina
  • Interests:GPL. Nascar. DTM. MOTO GP
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 16 2014 - 11:56 AM

It's all about habit and practice.

It's quite true that 60's even 80's drivers braked with right foot, Ayrton Senna was one of the first drivers who started to implement the left foot to slow down the car ( at least that was one of the 80' F1 drivers told me once, (Argentinian Oscar" Poppy" Larrauri).

In sim racing with steering wheel it's much easier to do left foot braking, However I know some drivers who always use RFB with very good results.( I could never do Joosa Riekkinen lap times even braking with my left foot). I sometimes do it in another sims, for example I remeber when I drove GTP, ( Nascar Sport Prototypes mod) I always used my right foot to brake. Not so in GPL

Edited by Pablo_Fernandez, Jul 16 2014 - 11:57 AM.


#6 jxeboy

jxeboy

    GPLaps

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 210 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 16 2014 - 12:03 PM

I swap between them. I know you don't really need to use the clutch in GPL but I find myself always using it on Upshifts. It makes them more consistent in my opinion.

For corners that don't require shifting I usually use the right foot to brake as it is normally just a dap. But for corners that require heavy breaking it's often with the left foot so I can balance the car with the throttle. I never use the clutch to downshift the car, but in other sims I do this with heel and toe so I can still balance.

#7 Fat Rich

Fat Rich

    Lazy Blipper

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 772 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fallen out of the Karussell again
  • Interests:GPL has got me by the throat and won't let go.
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 16 2014 - 02:42 PM

5m 48s shows why you shouldn't brake with your left foot in a Lotus 49 if you want realism:



Ultimately it's your game and you should play it how you want to. :) I only right foot brake, and I use the clutch for all upshifts and heel and toe on all downshifts because it's part of the vibe of GPL and adds to the challenge. In Assetto Corsa however I'll left foot brake on any car that has a paddle shift, heel and toe on any with the H shifter.

#8 Pete Gaimari

Pete Gaimari

    Jim Clark

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,515 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado
  • Interests:Racing and Muzzleloader Hunting
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 16 2014 - 02:43 PM

They were using LF braking in the 60's for Rally driving, so it's not that they didn't know about it in F1. Jimmy drove a Rally car. They also showed him driving a Ford on the street with auto trans, and he was LF braking it.

It's true the steering column was in the way in the Lotus to LF brake, but it wasn't in the way in the Ferrari. So, never say never on how they drove back then unless you've had a personal conversation with all the drivers.

Edited by Pete Gaimari, Jul 16 2014 - 02:45 PM.


#9 jgf

jgf

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 785 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Columbus, OH
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Jul 16 2014 - 03:36 PM

True realism would be right foot braking in most cars, leaving the left foot free for the clutch.  But given that we are lacking so much tactile input in a sim, I say compensate by braking/shifting/steering in any way that is comfortable.  (I use paddle shifters, which necessitates me holding the wheel at the 9 o'clock-3 o'clock positions;  in real life I usually preferred the 11 o'clock-1 o'clock grip.  And brake with my left foot, rarely done in real life.)

#10 T18

T18

    Jo Bonnier

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St. Louis Mo
  • Sim interest:Nascar

Posted Jul 16 2014 - 06:35 PM

I have always left foot braked, and that is from the age of like 6 playing World Circuit AKA F1GP

#11 Fat Rich

Fat Rich

    Lazy Blipper

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 772 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fallen out of the Karussell again
  • Interests:GPL has got me by the throat and won't let go.
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 17 2014 - 03:44 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Jul 16 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

They were using LF braking in the 60's for Rally driving, so it's not that they didn't know about it in F1. Jimmy drove a Rally car. They also showed him driving a Ford on the street with auto trans, and he was LF braking it.

It's true the steering column was in the way in the Lotus to LF brake, but it wasn't in the way in the Ferrari. So, never say never on how they drove back then unless you've had a personal conversation with all the drivers.

Very true, but there were still a plenty of drivers right foot braking in F1 right up to the mid 1990s despite all the gizmos, because most of the cars leading up to F1 required heel and toe shifts and it was what they were used to. Most of the fastest guys were left foot braking by then though. I was watching the 1997 CART championship and Christian Fittipaldi was having to learn to left foot brake after breaking his right leg earlier in the season.

Now pretty much all of the junior formulas use paddle shifts so maybe one day heel and toeing will become a dying art, except amongst us sim racers :D

In GPL, is left foot braking necessary to get Alien fast times? Might be a useful excuse for me being so slow!

#12 JonnyA

JonnyA

    Perry McCarthy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 579 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dorset, UK
  • Interests:Historic motor sport, sailing, astrophotography
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 17 2014 - 05:32 AM

I started off right foot braking as I wanted to be realistic, but as I only have paddle shifts anyway it is a bit of a moot point. I recently realised I have switched to left foot braking but I have no idea when I started to do it! It just feels more natural and is a carry over from karts, I suppose. I find it makes it a lot easier to balance the car on corner entry.
I'm still slow but every little helps!

#13 tdurrett

tdurrett

    Denny Hulme

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 130 posts
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 17 2014 - 05:55 AM

Historically, could  the 60s GP cars be downshifted without the clutch?  In the sims I try to go for realism for GPL and P&G with a dab to the clutch with the left braking foot/ right for gas.
In sims like GTR2 I use the clutch only down to second or first gear.

The was a youtube video of Rossi driving the 49 at Circuit of the Americas track -- really punishing the car during shifts.

#14 dbell84

dbell84

    Dan Gurney For President

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 921 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:20 minutes from Road Atlanta
  • Interests:Whatever
  • Sim interest:GPL

Posted Jul 17 2014 - 06:27 AM

View Posttdurrett, on Jul 17 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

Historically, could  the 60s GP cars be downshifted without the clutch?  In the sims I try to go for realism for GPL and P&G with a dab to the clutch with the left braking foot/ right for gas.
In sims like GTR2 I use the clutch only down to second or first gear.

The was a youtube video of Rossi driving the 49 at Circuit of the Americas track -- really punishing the car during shifts.

That was the first time Rossi had driven a car with a stick shift and yeah, he really punished the gear box.

#15 David Wright Lo67

David Wright Lo67

    Denny Hulme

  • GTLW Crew
  • 443 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:GPL, GTL and P&G
  • Sim interest:GPL and P&G

Posted Jul 17 2014 - 06:33 AM

60s GP cars could be downshifted without the clutch but it wasn't the norm - only done if the clutch failed.  Lotuses were an exception in that they had synchromesh gearboxes - I don't think they could be shifted without the clutch or it was very difficult.

JonnyA's experience with karts is relevant.  When Lotus did introduce left foot braking briefly on the Lotus 76 (a 4 pedal system together with an electrically operated clutch activated by a button on the gear lever) Ronnie Peterson adapted quickly because of his karting experience.  Jacky Ickx didn't adapt so Chapman fitted the electrically operated clutch to his road car so he could get used to it.  Even with this he still couldn't get used to it and never raced the 76 with the 4 pedal arrangement.  The electronically operated clutch wasn't a success and was only raced once.  The 4 pedal arrangement was replaced with a 3 pedal setup indicating Chapman did not think left foot braking was possible/advantageous in F1 when the driver had to use the clutch pedal.

Edited by David Wright Lo67, Jul 17 2014 - 06:38 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Sim Racing Links