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Universal setup for Daytona Coupe


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#1 -Jesse-

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Posted Mar 26 2009 - 11:28 AM

Hi!

Could someone upload a setup for Daytona Coupe that I could try. I'm testing it at Mosport if you have track specific setups. I really can't make up my mind if I should make the car soft or hard or something between, so it would be nice to see what you have come up with. Thanks!

#2 JimM

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Posted Mar 26 2009 - 06:34 PM

The stock setup isn't awful, but a little under-steery.
Try adding a click or two of rear bar, maybe the same with ride height and give it a spin.

Then try softening the front springs a click or two and go again.
If it still isn't turning in the way you like, raise the rear a click or two, maybe another click of rear bar, then drive.

It should be close at this point, gearing aside. Then start dialing in camber by looking at tire temps.

I started doing this with the Daytona at Mosport, but ran out of time and haven't finalized the setup yet. I'm far enough along though to know that it isn't going to take much. If you're still in need, I'll post it here when I'm done...may be a week though.

I make the final adjustments with my right foot usually.

#3 eliandi

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Posted Mar 26 2009 - 06:59 PM

Here is a Daytona Setup for Road America.  Its rough, not final.

Attached File  Cobra_Daytona.zip   787bytes   81 downloads

#4 Aristotelis

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Posted Mar 27 2009 - 03:55 AM

I'll have a go tonight after 21:00 CET on this combo. I don't know very much the track so I might not be able to provide a very good setup. Probably I'll need another day of testing.

#5 Legzy

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Posted Mar 27 2009 - 08:38 AM

 JimM, on Mar 27 2009, 12:34 AM, said:

The stock setup isn't awful, but a little under-steery.
Try adding a click or two of rear bar, maybe the same with ride height and give it a spin.

Then try softening the front springs a click or two and go again.
If it still isn't turning in the way you like, raise the rear a click or two, maybe another click of rear bar, then drive.

It should be close at this point, gearing aside. Then start dialing in camber by looking at tire temps.

I started doing this with the Daytona at Mosport, but ran out of time and haven't finalized the setup yet. I'm far enough along though to know that it isn't going to take much. If you're still in need, I'll post it here when I'm done...may be a week though.

I make the final adjustments with my right foot usually.
It's interesting to read your thoughts on the setup process Jim (or anyone that knows what they're doing). Most of these P&G cars start understeery & seem to have a +0.2 front toe setting, so the very 1st thing I've been doing is setting that to like -0.1. Then I look at the brakes, diffs, gears, dampers, springs & ARB. Obviously having a spin after each change. By the time I've finished, I've usually taken a car that's understeers constantly except snapping ground under braking, to a safer braking car that hopefully gets round a corner a little easier but is usually slower over a lap! :angry:  Very frustrating!!!
Is there a recommended list of priorities to sort? Like you've upped your rear Ride height & RARB as stage one.

I'm a fairly straight forward driver, I don't drift round or anything special. Just try to point the car in the right direction & go as fast as I can.

Thanks for any info you can share. I am trying to give P&G a go, but am finding the rewards not matching my efforts so far.

p.s. I don't seem to have problems creating my own setups in GTR2 or GTL, so am quite puzzled why P&G setups don't seem to work the same way?

#6 eliandi

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Posted Mar 27 2009 - 11:51 AM

legzy

Have you used this:
http://www.langamers.../Guida_GTR2.pdf

Its a 21 step guide for setups.  I've used it for P&G, ignoring the aero bits.  

As for the differences between P&G and GTR2/GTL, I'd defer to the physics guys.  In my opinion in P&G, everything is about mechanical grip using limited (or sub-optimal) suspension setup options, and maximum mechanical grip with these old tires occurs at a much higher slip angle than modern tires.  This impacts both how you need to drive them, and the setup.  These old cars do not offer the setup flexibility either, forcing compromises in multiple area (spring, dampers, diff, ride height, etc)

Hope this helps!

#7 Aristotelis

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Posted Mar 27 2009 - 04:56 PM

Started with the default setup of the Daytona and did some laps to learn the track as I hadn't raced on it from the days of GPL.
The car is much more stable and easier to drive than the short light and extremely agile elan I was driving before. This helped to focus on the track and learned it fast. After some laps I did a 1:35:234
The car though had a constant understeer. Power helped to limit it on power on, but still it was noticeable especially on power off (coasting)
I started by lowering the front springs by 1 click (80N/mm). I also raised a click the rear antirollbar because it seems that the track has not real bumps, it has a very flat surface. Usually when there are no bumps on the asphalt, stiffer antirolls help the car go faster. Don't use them on a bumpy track as they upset the car.
I also shortened the gearbox ratio one click as it was very long.

The improvements was once again immediate. I gained a whole second and the car even easier to drive while pointing at the turns far better. I noticed that on power on the revs would go high but the car wasn't pushing too much. So I thought I should try an even higher number at the differential power. I put 80.
I also lowered the pressures of the tyres front 235 and rear 240 to make the tyres IMO heat more even. The higher pressure at the rear would also help the car turn more.
I also noticed that on some long braking points that needed lot's of trailbraking in the turn the car would go a bit too wide. So I moved the bias at the back 54%
laptime: 1:33:120!

Looking at the tyre heat I realized I could lower even more the tyre pressures. I also noticed that I could probably try to make the car a bit more oversteer as it was easy for me to control. I lowered the front springs once more
I also tried to put the toe in at 0.00 to aid a bit the initial turn in and see what happens.
It seemed to me to be faster. The car was able to follow the inside line of the high speed turns easier and better. The clock though showed another story. I was faster just by a hint of a tenth and the car was surely now unstable at turn in needing very precise movements. 1:33:094
I put the front toe in back to +0.20 and did a single lap to see what happens. I wasn't very satisfied, so I tried a different approach. Toe-in back to 0.00 back the brake bias a bit more to the front 55 from 54%
result 1:32:948 and a generally easier car to drive. I was satisfied.

Still to make it perfect it would have been nice to make it turn a bit more with the gas now. One click lower front rebound damper and 2 clicks higher rear bump should probably fix it. Pit out and let's try it.
Wow what a difference in overall grip and stability. It seems that the car was underdamped but I hadn't noticed from the start. It seemed to kept the line much better now, but the extra grip gave more traction and I had a tad of understeer from the apex and after. Then I remembered that I hadn't play with the caster yet! I didn't even tried to make a clean lap but I turned to the pits and added 6* of caster to help the car turn more on power on
It did! 1:32:5xx (can't remember right now and the lap wasn't even perfect.
It was late so I got a bit tired and didn't try harder but I'm sure that 32 low's was still possible and the setup was still very easy to drive except at one place. You must avoid to put your wheels inside of the white left line at the T2 because the very closed on power differential will make you spin in not time. Keep this in mind and you won't have problems, but if you're not precise enough then lower the power at 40 or 50 and try again it should be easier

I really like the Daytona. It is fast, slides marvelously without effort from turn to turn and the only thing you need to remember is that in the end it is a bit heavy so you need to be aware that if you enter a turn too fast, although it seems that it can handle it, you will slowly go off track on a 4 wheel drift.

Once more, try to follow the steps instead of just download the setup and try it.
Cheers

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#8 Legzy

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Posted Apr 07 2009 - 11:06 AM

 eliandi, on Mar 27 2009, 05:51 PM, said:

legzy

Have you used this:
http://www.langamers.../Guida_GTR2.pdf

Its a 21 step guide for setups.  I've used it for P&G, ignoring the aero bits.  

As for the differences between P&G and GTR2/GTL, I'd defer to the physics guys.  In my opinion in P&G, everything is about mechanical grip using limited (or sub-optimal) suspension setup options, and maximum mechanical grip with these old tires occurs at a much higher slip angle than modern tires.  This impacts both how you need to drive them, and the setup.  These old cars do not offer the setup flexibility either, forcing compromises in multiple area (spring, dampers, diff, ride height, etc)

Hope this helps!
Hi Eliandi,
Yeah I was already familiar with that setup guide but thanks. I've been reading the "thought processes" that the car setup creations have been going through... that has helped me change my priority order of what to tinker with 1st. I am getting much better results (quickly) with each car now.
Thanks & I'll keep reading the thought processes... very handy.
Legzy




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