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60 Fps Patch - Ai Gears

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#1 EzaBlade

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Posted Jan 05 2019 - 04:18 PM

Hi,

I know the 60 FPS issue has been visited and revisited and I am ready to be politely told to "forget it, it doesn't work, accept it" :rolleyes:

but....one more question in the hope that there is an answer.

I don't race online. I'm not good enough - maybe one day. I do lots and lots of training laps and some racing against the AI cars. When training I use the 60 fps patch. When I then go to race I have to disable the 60 fps patch and I find that I can't drive as well as I can't seem to react in time. I really, really would love to have 60 fps in AI racing.

Anyway, to the crux of the problem and to find out if anyone else has experienced the same thing and has found an answer.

The reason I cannot use the 60 fps patch is because with this enabled the AI cars do not change gear beyond 3rd gear and therefore limp round the track at low speed. I have all the patches available and have tried them all but I don't enable more than one at a time.

60fpsv2
60fpsaiv1
60fpsv2newmod

From what I've read 60fpsaiv1 was the one designed to make 60fps work with the AI (or at least improve it).

Has anyone noticed this behaviour? If so, has anyone fixed this behaviour?

Edited by EzaBlade, Jan 05 2019 - 04:19 PM.


#2 Cookie

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Posted Jan 05 2019 - 06:35 PM

http://srmz.net/inde...=20#entry131657

#3 TvO

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Posted Jan 06 2019 - 04:03 AM

In the track.ini lower dlong_speed_adj_coeff and increase dlong_speed_maximum . I saw in the other thread you increased both but that will cause them to slow down.

#4 Millennium

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Posted Jan 06 2019 - 02:03 PM

The 60 fps patches won't work properly with the ai. I've been trying a lot in the past to get decent results with adjusting the ai top speed etc but it seems that there isn't a way to fix it. From what I know the 60 fps ai patch only works with the original 1967 cars, but I don't know how well it works. A good all in one 60 fps patch is defenitely on top of my wishlist too but we can only hope the modding wizards find a way to get it to work. If you really want to drive with other cars I would just try to get used to 36 fps, because switching between them is almost like switching between to entirely different games. Going back from 60 to 36 is hard in the beginning but you will get used to it eventually.

Or just give online racing a chance, not every online race only has unbeatable aliens. There are plenty of fun races with all sorts of drivers. It's a very welcoming community as well. I had the same doubts as you one year ago (never raced online untill then) but decided to give it a try, now i'm hooked! ;)

#5 EzaBlade

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Posted Jan 07 2019 - 12:16 PM

View PostCookie, on Jan 05 2019 - 06:35 PM, said:


I've been through this thread and it does not work because the AI cars don't change beyond 3rd gear. This intends to re-configure their lap times for normal driving. In fact it was this particular thread that I was following when I found the problem with the gear changing.

Apologies - I should have mentioned this in my original post. Thanks for the suggestion though.

#6 EzaBlade

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Posted Jan 07 2019 - 12:21 PM

View PostTvO, on Jan 06 2019 - 04:03 AM, said:

In the track.ini lower dlong_speed_adj_coeff and increase dlong_speed_maximum . I saw in the other thread you increased both but that will cause them to slow down.

As I wasn't sure of the state of my install I decided to clean with the original and no mods as this was the most likely to work. Before trying anything from the other thread you mention I enabled the patch and the gear changes were affected. As a baseline I expected this to work but the cars to be too slow.

I will look back at that other thread and make the changes on my clean original GPL install with no mods. Maybe I did something wrong that when done right fixes this gear changing thing.

Maybe Millenium has it right - I should stick to 35fps and get myself into the online scene asap.

Edited by EzaBlade, Jan 07 2019 - 12:26 PM.


#7 Cookie

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Posted Jan 07 2019 - 12:42 PM

Online the 60fps are much better,
as the spikes of the crash boxes are more but smaller, you can do much closer wheel to wheel fights.
I will never go back to the 36fps slideshow that makes my eyes tear after some minutes...

Maybe one day the 72fps patch of Lee will be working :shh:

Edited by Cookie, Jan 07 2019 - 12:43 PM.


#8 TvO

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Posted Jan 07 2019 - 06:35 PM

After I got 3 freezes in 3 races with 60 fps online I decided not to join any of those races any more

#9 Cookie

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Posted Jan 08 2019 - 04:01 AM

There are leagues running 60fps for years, my experience is that there are other facts much more relevant than fps.

A well known 36fps league had lots of troubles since their grids got fuller and more international...

#10 Tato

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Posted Jan 08 2019 - 04:26 AM

For the few I can understand - ok, I agree, almost nothing about everything - taking also in account that afaik in GPL engine, the physics is linked to graphics, by my humble point of view having 36 per second physics refreshes with 60 graphics frames, is like, more or less, trying to put a triangular peg into a smaller circular hole; very difficult to have things working properly in that way. The AI issue with 60 fps patch - because, honestly, when you change something on one side and something else on another one but in the same pot doesn't work anymore as it should, is called a bug at my home, no matters if the man who made the patch was a so arrogant individual to affirm this is absolutely not a bug because he never race against AI and so he don't give a damn about it (the fact that is for free is again a pointless argument for my point of view) - is tha main reason why I've never ever launched it. The other one is that, if you get used to better fps, is very difficult to come back to a worse one (generally speaking, not only for GPL).
BTW, calling the 36 fps a 'slide-frame' - as indeed is, to actual standards of +60 - is quite unfair imho to GPL, that come from 1998 and started to develop in 1995-96, taking in account how graphics engines were in that era, and how primitive was the hardware too; i.e., I can remember the games' reviews here in Italy, they consider still in 2001 30fps to be a good pace...

What I wrote here is just a my thinking at loud voice, nothing more.

#11 Millennium

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Posted Jan 08 2019 - 05:23 AM

I agree that 36 fps is not smooth, but it's something I have came to terms with when playing GPL. I have a 144hz monitor because higher framerates are always nicer to play with, especially when there is a lot of rotational movement. I play all the modern sims on +90 fps with Freesync and even then when I go back to 60 fps for recording gameplay th├ít suddenly feels choppy.  

As mentioned by others, going back to any lower framerate is never a nice experience. That's why I rather stick to 36 fps for GPL for consistency instead of having to switch all the time when wanting to race online or against AI.

Edited by Millennium, Jan 08 2019 - 05:38 AM.


#12 Lee200

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Posted Jan 08 2019 - 06:16 AM

View PostCookie, on Jan 07 2019 - 12:42 PM, said:

Maybe one day the 72fps patch of Lee will be working :shh:

Like BRR before, I've tried several times now to get the AI to work better with his 60 fps patches with no luck.  So there is no chance I can get it work at 72 fps.  Sorry.  :(

#13 JonnyA

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Posted Jan 08 2019 - 06:54 AM

I remember someone said a 72 fps patch (if it could be made) would be easier to match to the AI because it is 2 x 36 fps. Is this not the case, Lee?

#14 Lee200

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Posted Jan 08 2019 - 07:52 AM

That may be true from a graphics standpoint, but the AI code runs at 36 fps.  Changing it to run at 60 fps or 72 fps has proven difficult to do.

I've never gotten the sounds to work properly at 72 fps either; 60 fps seems to be the maximum.

#15 Roger_F

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Posted Jan 08 2019 - 09:03 AM

I wish I could get used to 36 fps but I'm hooked on at least 60 FPS and 1920X1080; these specs are the typical "Native Resolution" of most modern Monitors.  Newer monitors that are gaming oriented are going bigger in terms of both resolution and FPS.

I'm running an old  I7 920 gaming rig with a large number of case fans, watercooling and all the state of the art goodies that were popular 10 years ago.  It used to easily run anything that gpl had to offer.  With some of the latest track developments (e.g. Spa 67) and the full bodied sports cars (like the new 1967 SCX) I'm running into some frame rate degradation.  I solved this with some upgrades (1 TB SSD, 1050 TI GPU 4.0, and overclocking the cpu by 25%).  The rig is running great ... my only GPL problem now is the AI at 60 fps.  

I have written extensively on my approach to getting 60 fps to work and though not perfect, I am comfortable with my solution until a better alternative occurs.  I get beat off the line, catch up usually by the 1st or second turn and pass generally on straightaways.  If the AIs and I are running the same general lap times ( I adjust this to be so) then the AI races are challenging.  The tracks with real long straights present the most obvious discrepancies but my rig and monitor are performing very comfortably at 60 FPS and 1920X1080 and the graphics are very pleasing to the eye and improve my driving ... it's hard to drive what you can't see!

GEM + has been a great help to tuning "Tracks to Mods" and my new 1 terabyte SSD (cloned to my windows 7 data and system) has made the whole adjustment process much quicker.  If one of you very talented developers can come up with a better 60 FPS patch I would be glad to help you test it.  Until then I remain a GPL gamer at:  60 FPS and a 1920X1080 screen resolution ... if those AIs were only faster on long straights?.

Roger

#16 TvO

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Posted Jan 08 2019 - 12:15 PM

View PostCookie, on Jan 08 2019 - 04:01 AM, said:

There are leagues running 60fps for years, my experience is that there are other facts much more relevant than fps.

A well known 36fps league had lots of troubles since their grids got fuller and more international...

I know your stance but the higher risk of freezes make 60 fps pointless online for me. I never had more than one or two freezes per season, but with 60 fps a dodgy track has an almost 100 % freeze success rate. I prefer an AI race over a 60 fps online race any day. Plus it messes up replays, SRB animations and menu handling. Add in the AI problems, and you know why I think this 'patch' is a bad piece of software detrimental to GPL. Thank God some leagues continue to run 36 fps.

#17 Cookie

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Posted Jan 08 2019 - 02:14 PM

View PostTvO, on Jan 08 2019 - 12:15 PM, said:

I Plus it messes up replays, SRB animations and menu handling.

I never had troubles with replays!
Menue handling is smooth and save no problems here.
SRB animations never failed...

Give me a 36fps replay better than this, made with a medium PC: https://www.sendspace.com/file/yqrzct

PS

Yes you must optimize your CPU and GPU settings more carefully!

Edited by Cookie, Jan 08 2019 - 02:16 PM.


#18 TvO

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Posted Jan 08 2019 - 02:57 PM

That's not what I mean. Patching and unpatching GPL because replays are not playing at the right speed is annoying. There are frequent accidental double clicks in menu's and SRB's play at twice the speed. But obviously you already knew that ;) .

There's no question 60 fps looks nicer. But don't act like I'm making things up please. It's not very nice.

#19 EzaBlade

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Posted Jan 09 2019 - 06:06 AM

OK - my OP started quite a discussion.

My take is that I would love higher fps on GPL but if it can't be done reliably then it can't be done (20 years old remember).
Still a brilliant sim. :up:

#20 TvO

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Posted Jan 09 2019 - 07:07 AM

I remember Philips had these TV's that could extrapolate between frames to increase the frame rate. For TV it works great but for gaming it would result in input lag. So that's not the way to go either.

The way to go would be to automatically have the patch enable and disable itself in certain parts of the exe as to run menu's, AI, animations and replays at 36 fps and the rest at 60, and that's what Petteri  (brr) should have done. Now we have this unwanted division and incompatibility due to a released unfinished patch.





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