Posted Jul 08 2016 - 12:46 PM
I have been driving GPL since it was released in 1998. I've been playing around with iRacing the last few months, thanks to a coupon for $5.00 for 3 months membership, which got me looking for other racing sims that I could purchase to potentially increase my online racing opportunities. I won't continue the iRacing membership because of the ongoing cost but the one thing I enjoyed was the ability to join an online race at just about any time.
Which brings me to Automobilista. (I had never heard of Automobilista, Stock Car Extreme, or Reiza. Thats how satisfied I am with GPL and the amazing community that continues to support it.) My main requirement in looking for another sim was that the physics had to be realistic. I test drove rfactor 2 and Assetto Corsa but didn't find either one particularly amazing in the physics department. I was planning on trying Project Cars but after my first hour with Automobilista I was sold. The physics and ffb are the best I have experienced. I was prepared not to like Automobilista because I had read that the graphics were lacking but I didn't find that to be the case after getting my graphics settings configured for the sim. It isn't as eye popping as rfactor or AC but it isn't bad either.
So I said all that to say that I find Automobilista quite enjoyable.
Posted Jul 08 2016 - 01:26 PM
Posted Jul 08 2016 - 01:54 PM
Edited by mcmirande, Jul 08 2016 - 05:18 PM.
Posted Jul 08 2016 - 02:26 PM
Hopefully Reiza will soon become a major player in the sim racing market, they seem to have really delivered from their crowd funding exercise a few months back and made massive progress with their game
Edit: Just had a quick go on the latest beta, actually ran a lot better than when I last tried it a few months ago.... will hopefully find some time to test it some more
Edited by Fat Rich, Jul 08 2016 - 02:52 PM.
Posted Jul 08 2016 - 05:47 PM
That is good news!
Posted Jul 09 2016 - 02:30 AM
I'm not a fan of essentially single make racing which is all that is on offer. I know the stock cars and touring cars technically have different makes but they are mechanically identical. I prefer the now old fashioned approach of titles like GP Legends, GT Legends and GTR2 where you have cars with different strengths and weaknesses racing each other, on the tracks they actually race on.
Edited by David Wright Lo67, Jul 09 2016 - 02:40 AM.
Posted Jul 09 2016 - 02:58 AM
Raceroom Experience seems to try and give full grids of certain race series, but for me it's a no-go because it's DX9 again.
I doubt whether we'll see another hardcore sim that focuses on a full season of cars and tracks like GPL did, it's just not profitable enough and online racers seem to want to beat each other in identical cars, even with fixed setups sometimes
Posted Jul 09 2016 - 03:15 AM
As David and FR state. Present game makers don't seem to give the buyer the bang for buck anymore.
They make games without full or realistic content but put them on the market for big money.
Titles like Euro 2016 Pes Football. Only so many licensed teams. Don Bradman Cricket with fictitious names and false grounds. Rugby challenge games with false names and teams playing in the wrong stadium.
I know these games are not race sim related, but it just highlights the day light robbery that some game makers are getting away with.
Why promise and make games for fans without the full licence then put it on the market. Leaving the customer feel they have been sold short and robbed and stared.
I will not give these type games the light of day or any consideration.
I'd rather let the moths eat my money from my wallet first.
Posted Jul 09 2016 - 05:05 AM
Sure, iRacing is expensive but it works out a bit cheaper with the various discounts that can be applied if you race it a lot, promo codes etc.
Assetto Corsa for example has lots of accurate licensed content, laserscanned tracks and cars that use real data from the manufacturers and simulate all the systems on the car (except working gauges on the dashboard for some reason ). The game plus all the DLC is quite pricey, but is regularly heavily discounted on Steam, and you're getting 100+ cars and 15+ laserscanned tracks... better value than GPL with it's 7 cars and 11 tracks, it was a full price game when it released in '98 and if you factor in inflation....
Same story with PCars and rF2. I don't like PCars and I can't get rF2 to run smoothly, but I paid about £6 for each of them when they were discounted on Steam so no great loss
Posted Jul 09 2016 - 08:06 AM
OK, that's me - I know there are thousands of modern racing out there, but they are in only marginally better situation actually, with only GT3 cars being more widely represented in all today's racing sims.
One has to remember, however, that it wasn't until last ~10 years or so, when PC/console gaming industry has been recognized as as business on similar level as the movie one. Unfortunately, licensing fees were adjusted accordingly. As a result, there are only two gaming companies in the world now (EA and Sony), which can afford licenses for recreating full grid and track lineup for any top racing series.
Posted Jul 09 2016 - 08:54 AM
Posted Jul 10 2016 - 03:17 AM
Licensing is certainly a key issue, but EA and Sony no longer have the monopoly they had 10 years ago. Some years ago Codies got the F1 license and iRacing and Eutechnyx have the NASCAR license. When it comes to lower profile racing series Simbin were always good at picking these up, and S3S (formerly Simbin) have the DTM, WTCC and ADAC GT licenses.
One fly in the ointment has been the Ferrari and Porsche licenses which were difficult to get. Simbin used to get round this by licensing a series which had Porsches and Ferraris in it, but Porsche and Ferrari got wise to this and closed that loophole. Hence the death of the GTR series. The good news is it looks like the Porsche license will be more widely available and perhaps Ferrari too.
But the other issue with racing series licenses is how they could fit in today's multi-purpose sims. Traditionally if you have a racing series license then the license holder expects your sim has to be focused on that racing series. Simbin initially got round this by including the supporting series to the main series and throwing in a historic version of the series too., to give the sim a wide range of cars while keeping to the main WTCC license.
Posted Jul 10 2016 - 08:43 AM
What intangible fantasy do Ferrari and Porsche think they are protecting?
More and more becoming hard pressed to see how anyone has any rights to art created by anyone else.
All this rights stuff is the wrong approach and has messed things all over.
Here they are altogether spending billions on billions marketing a trade name, trying to get it locked into the brains of every potential customer, and when creative enthusiastic artists paint a picture of their brand they freak out, claim rights, and attack the artists.
That just seems absurd.
Pro race teams using a simulator is now accepted "universally."
Toyota just opened its multi-million dollar single seat rig, which seems to be sitting in a room about as big as a four-unit apartment building, depending on local zoning.
Apparently it must have some substantial benefit.
Racing a computer is no longer a fringe activity as it was in 1998.
Track owners and sanctioning organizations, (two wheel and four), now have a responsibility in the interest of overall safety, (of fans, track workers, teams, and drivers), to provide current open source laser scans of their tracks as a precondition of certification.
Physics is physics. At the automotive level its pretty much all been laid down for at least fifty years. It is difficult to imagine any race sim coming up with "new physics." Not sure, but I don't think you can patent physics or claim any right to slip angle or gravity.
All the rest of any race sim is art, pure and simple.
Rather than selling licenses, they should be paying anyone credible to promote their brands, (they surely have the budgets), and thereby contribute significantly to the betterment of motorsports, not to mention saving lives, preventing injuries, reducing poor driving incidents, and lowering damages to cars and tracks.
Pretty sure a weighted cost-benefit analysis would prove this case and they could figure out how to share the costs of the scans.
They could use the money they save by not chasing artists into court.
Edited by John Woods, Jul 10 2016 - 09:32 AM.
Posted Jul 10 2016 - 05:35 PM
The bad - they are a small enterprise, and have to face all those licensing issues. I can bet Niels have some stuff he never released due copyright/business model issues that would make us very happy.
Posted Jul 11 2016 - 08:43 PM
For multiplayer you're pretty much stuck to iRacing. GSC 2010/12, GSC2013, SCE and now AMS will share the same online fate of, outside of the basic and easy to drive cars in the game, you will only find an online session if you belong to a league. rF2 is even worse on that aspect.
For realism, there are two things to consider: how it drives and what it simulates. I think AMS simulates "enough" and pretty much anything since 2000 has more than GPL. There are some setup things you can do on nearly every car to exploit it a bit, and some people do go that route online, but offline it won't matter. I usually run nearly defaults. The cars are nearly all easy to pick up and drive but to be very fast, only a couple are that accessible. But overall AMS does have a good feel, both in FFB as well as the driving aspect. Here's where iRacing lacks with their inept FFB. AC has a good feel especially on road cars, I'm not too fond on proper race cars and some aspects of the simulation are shallow so you don't have to do as much managing of the car as you would in iRacing, rFactor, rFactor 2, or AMS... but in other areas, it does punish more than some of those. Do a bad shift, like you don't blip adequately, and the engine goes. pCARS is a weird cookie because while it does have a lot of aspects of simulation, it's like an incorrectly calibrated wind tunnel - it does a lot but not correctly. One last pointer on feel, FFB has a very subjective interpretation by most users where often times the more correct tendencies are not what a large userbase actually likes, and often thinks is incorrect.
For offline play, you either stick to games that came out until 2006, or Automobilista. It's the only way you'll be able to run a championship. But AI .... it's not well calibrated yet with psychotic tendencies and you must run a lengthy qualifying session (with Private Testing ON) to minimize that, though it will still happen. Possibly the dirty racing surface is impacting the AI as they'll dart off at sharp angles in sync.
So play the demo and see how you feel about it. It's the only current game that has a championship season and an actual series in the package - the Brazilian Stock Car series with all but 1 track. It's not as taxing on the system as Assetto, rF2, R3E or iRacing. However the game is an in-between title as Reiza will launch AMS 2 next year, and this will be abandoned so the DLC will also be short-lived, and likely will split the shallow online rooms even more.
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