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Approach To Learn Gpl


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#1 Joseph P

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Posted Feb 02 2021 - 04:58 PM

What is the "best" way to learn the sim?

My approach has been to pick one 67 car at one track at a time at the GP setting. What this means is that I pick a car and a track and keep working them over 10 to 12 lap runs until I have decent memory of the track. Usually, if time permits, this means about 10 or 12 runs over 2 or 3 days. I dont play in the garage other than adjusting steering lock and brake bias. I figure this a decent method of learning the tracks and the cars. I saw happyloaf's threads where he started doing races - nice job! - but for me, I dont think I am ready for one.

For drivers at any level, rookie or otherwise, how do/did you go about learning GPL? Thanks!

#2 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Feb 02 2021 - 06:22 PM

I was a Jim Clark fan when he was alive. When I started with GPL in 2000 I started in the Lotus 49 and stayed with it for a lot of years. I didn't start driving the other cars until I joined a league that handicapped the drivers by there GPL Rank. Faster drivers drove slower cars. Then is another league they had a money system that you had to buy the cars you drove. If you didn't win all the time you could only afford the slower cars. At one time I raced in 5 different leagues  at the same time. I got to drive all the cars doing that. I hardly ever got to drive the Lotus but it always was my favorite.

What your doing is not a bad plan but you might advance faster to stick to one car. Learn the 11 tracks that GPL came with before you move to add on tracks. When you learn them you can start to drive Championships. Do the first Championship in novice mode. The do one is short race mode. Then long race mode. The full length GP mode may be too much. I'd hold off doing those. It's all I do now but i've been at this for a while.

When you can do a Championship in long race mode without any shift-r or knocking an AI off the track, you can try online racing

#3 PTRACER

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Posted Feb 02 2021 - 11:07 PM

I just kept driving until I got good. It has taken almost 20 years though...

I have found investing in good hardware helps too. E.g. Load cell brake pedal means I can control the brakes much better than I could with my Logitech G25. My Fanatec CSL wheel is also so much better and so much stronger, so I feel I can control the car more finely.

Edited by PTRACER, Feb 02 2021 - 11:07 PM.


#4 jgf

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Posted Feb 03 2021 - 02:23 AM

I think we are all still learning it.  

As a sim racer you have an advantage over your real world counterparts - whatever the sim you can try every car and find the  one that best complements your driving style.  The Lotus may be the fastest, but if it is a chore to drive (as it is for me) you will never be consistent through a race;  the Brabham is great fun to toss around the track, but if you cannot take advantage of its agility to overcome the relative lack of power, you're an also-ran.  So find the car that best suits you, then start driving a track, don't try for hotlaps but emphasize consistency, learn every inch of the track so you do not have to think about it;  when you are comfortable, speed up slightly and continue.  Eventually one part of the track will cause trouble, try different brake points, different gears, different apex;  when you are certain no change in driving will improve your performance there, consider a setup change ...then start over, working back up to your previous times.  Time consuming?  with practice it becomes easier;  for every hour of a real world race the driver has probably put in thirty hours of practice.

Many years ago I heard an interesting take on race tracks - approach the track like your favorite piece of music,  every track has a rhythm and once you've learned it you can sing along.  (This from a music teacher, a lady old enough to be my mother, who effortlessly took her Healey 3000 through turns where we all knew she was going to spin.  But she never did.)

#5 Michkov

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Posted Feb 03 2021 - 06:43 AM

View PostJoseph P, on Feb 02 2021 - 04:58 PM, said:

What is the "best" way to learn the sim?

My approach has been to pick one 67 car at one track at a time at the GP setting. What this means is that I pick a car and a track and keep working them over 10 to 12 lap runs until I have decent memory of the track. Usually, if time permits, this means about 10 or 12 runs over 2 or 3 days. I dont play in the garage other than adjusting steering lock and brake bias. I figure this a decent method of learning the tracks and the cars. I saw happyloaf's threads where he started doing races - nice job! - but for me, I dont think I am ready for one.

For drivers at any level, rookie or otherwise, how do/did you go about learning GPL? Thanks!

This is a lie how I learned GPL and a blatant advertisement, but knowing what I do now is what I would do.

Join a league, any will do, but I'm thinking of oAo.

You get a full grid, meaning usually there is a driver around you to battle with during the race.
Races are two weeks apart, which is enough time to prepare and plenty of variation you dont get bored with the same track over and over again.
They are using the original GPL physics
Finally they are all quite nice chaps over there, always willing to give you pointers if you ask.

Full disclosure I may ask you to do 2 laps around Targa in the middle of summer.

PS: PT has the real answer.

#6 JonnyA

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Posted Feb 03 2021 - 07:00 AM

When I had just started to get the hang of GPL, and the learning process was still fresh in my mind, I wrote the attached guide for new drivers. It may be some help, maybe not, but it sounds like you have the right approach.

Attached Files


Edited by JonnyA, Feb 03 2021 - 07:00 AM.


#7 twinpotter

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Posted Feb 03 2021 - 07:25 AM

Give up now & save your sanity 😂🤭

No seriously as Jackie once said in order to race and win one as to remove emotions.

For me it's to be in the moment, to enjoy it more and the more I do the more fluent I am. That is until I end upside down in a bale of hay 😂😂

TP: enjoy 🏁

Edited by twinpotter, Feb 03 2021 - 01:38 PM.


#8 fajanko

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Posted Feb 03 2021 - 07:39 AM

View PostJonnyA, on Feb 03 2021 - 07:00 AM, said:

When I had just started to get the hang of GPL, and the learning process was still fresh in my mind, I wrote the attached guide for new drivers. It may be some help, maybe not, but it sounds like you have the right approach.

Awesome guide! All great but this line worths gold:
"Remove any distractions from the room like mobile phones and children."

:D

According my experiences television and pets (not to mention wife!) should be also out of touch and hearing during online events :)

#9 PMercal

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Posted Feb 03 2021 - 10:27 AM

I started in 98 when the game came out
at that time there were no simulators that managed the differential and I, like almost all other players, used the differential of defaul, which was normally 85/30 5 or similar.
For me the revolution was when I started to use the differential and other values well, starting from 45/60 1 or better 30/85 1 or 2, which allowed me to drive as I wanted, I solved the problem of blocking in front braking, managing well the accelerator and brake pedals.
So I learned to brake well and to have the right insertion in the curve. Normally I bring the braking to 49%.
Over time I've realised that using other people's setups is good for some things, such as gear ratios or the car's balance, but a lot depends on the type of steering wheel and how you set it up.


Sorry about my translator
Piero

#10 Joseph P

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Posted Feb 03 2021 - 10:44 AM

Thanks!

Aside from the issue of whether I have any basis to develop skills, part of my situation is I dont know what I dont know yet. For example, I dont know yet whether I like the BRM or the Eagle more. So I am just trying to get a taste of each of the cars and each of the tracks. Thanks for the tips.

Anything else comes to mind, please feel free.

#11 Yngwie

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Posted Feb 03 2021 - 01:00 PM

View PostMichkov, on Feb 03 2021 - 06:43 AM, said:

Join a league, any will do...

I second that.
This will boost your driving more than against AI, because
1. other drivers will give you valuable tips and hints based on watching you and answer your questions directly
2.  you'll be able to watch the others and learn from that
3. it's more fun with a challenge on a personal level :)

Waaay back in the day a league buddy watched me at Monza and patiently briefed me for an hour.
Bugged me a bit to be corrected all the time (like 'brake earlier, closer into the corner, accelerate earlier...') but on that day I scraped off 3 secs off my laptime, so... ;)

Edited by Yngwie, Feb 03 2021 - 01:01 PM.


#12 Arturo Pereira

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Posted Feb 03 2021 - 01:13 PM

I would add:

- be patient. Banzai moves can kill you, even if virtually.

- there will be 18 other drivers in the track but only one can win.

- practice, practice, practice.

- read as many books as you can about motorsports history, specially from the 50s and 60s.

- remember what somebody famous said: to finish first, you must first finish.

- check your GPL Rank to verify if you are competitive enough = as an average, 3s slower than the WRs.

- READ THIS: http://wiki.grandpri...river_Behaviour

#13 JonnyA

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Posted Feb 03 2021 - 01:22 PM

View PostPMercal, on Feb 03 2021 - 10:27 AM, said:

I started in 98 when the game came out
at that time there were no simulators that managed the differential and I, like almost all other players, used the differential of defaul, which was normally 85/30 5 or similar.
For me the revolution was when I started to use the differential and other values well, starting from 45/60 1 or better 30/85 1 or 2, which allowed me to drive as I wanted, I solved the problem of blocking in front braking, managing well the accelerator and brake pedals.

Similar for me. I had kind of reached a plateau in improving my times, then started adjusting the diff (there is a great video tutorial here: https://www.youtube....h?v=awLhSsy5IqY). I found that when I really loaded up the power side, it matched my natural style and I started to improve again, even with cars I'd never done well with before. These days I start with 30/60 or 30/45 and go from there playing with the clutches.

#14 Joseph P

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Posted Feb 03 2021 - 04:11 PM

Thanks gents!

Edit: All good pointers and I do plan to get w a league once I am sure I am safe. On the video cited by JonnyA, I get that it was for purposes of showing how the diff functions and how changes affect it. However, is it expected on GPL to saw the wheel like that once a driver gets pace in his/her driving?

I ask because in the sims I've driven previously a lot of streering input to catch the back end usually destroyed tires and ultimately the car. But maybe for the 67s that's just how they are raced because the tires dont wear very much? Really appreciate the insights!

Edited by Joseph P, Feb 03 2021 - 05:32 PM.


#15 snafu

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Posted Feb 03 2021 - 05:31 PM

I would have to say having GPL Installed on totally unsuitable hardware initially (In 1999) my method has to be "Beat it into submission" . I still even 20 years later find spring rates a bit of a mystery. But I would say explore the set up's available from the GPLTD. Some will simply try to kill you at every opportunity but generally (For me) most can be tamed by adjusting the power and coast diff settings (Higher setting for power side  - more stable under acceleration  - Lower setting for coast - more stable under braking).Clutches increases the effect of both. Along with "brake bias. (Higher %age figure - more stable under braking. but longer braking distance). Other than that once you have found a combination which means you don't kill yourself every lap concentrate on tyre temperatures across the tyre in the set up screen. A few degrees of higher temp on the insides of the tyre is good IMO and a overall tyre pressure of 24 - 26 PSI is good to go.

When I was part of Robert Fleurke's team in oAo his set up's were a revelation to me. Yes I had to adjust brake bias and Diff settings to suit my driving style but his chassis settings are still my bible as a starting point. Different driving styles make for different tyre temps etc but Rob's settings are a fantastic starting point.. Just find one which is similar to the track you are trying to drive and adjust after a few laps to reflect your driving style.  But don't be afraid to go off at a tangent to the established norm. If it works for you go with it. But always put at least 5 laps on a set up before abandoning it. Some are a "Dog" for the 1st few laps but "Come alive" once the tyres are warmed up.

Get Rob's setup's here...
http://srmz.net/inde...tup#entry154370

TTFN
John.

#16 PTRACER

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Posted Feb 03 2021 - 08:30 PM

For original GPL and most mods, the ideal tyre temp is 270F and ideal pressure is 24PSI. Above these, the grip will drop off dramatically, so better to be just under rather than just over. Also there is no wear at all, so no need to worry about that. For camber, adjust until your temps are relatively even across the tyre. So long as the inside part of the tyre reaches 270F you should be generating max grip. Too much camber will affect grip under braking/acceleration and there is really no need for anything above 1 degree.

I believe in GPL that the ideal spring settings should match the weight distribution of the cars, which is mostly around 40/60 to the rear. So if you run 100lbs rear springs, ideally you should run 66lbs front. The spring rates will affect how weight moves around in the car, so a softer car will feel more sloppy and a stiffer car will feel more responsive (more rapid weight transfer). The heavier cars have more rear weight bias so stiffen the rear a few more clicks for those.

A lot of the alien setups use very low spring rates, like 75lbs on the rear. If you use these in real life the suspension wouldn't support the weight of the car and will hit the ground (as I once found out in my FFord), but in GPL it seems acceptable as there is no hard bump stop to stop the springs compressing. Just adjust strength based on handling preferences. Alien setups are also designed to be unstable, so while these ideas won't give you the FASTEST setups, they should give you the most controllable.

Edited by PTRACER, Feb 03 2021 - 08:35 PM.


#17 Joseph P

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Posted Feb 03 2021 - 09:05 PM

I'm really enjoying this. Thanks!

Maybe the sim's name should be changed to "The Tao of GPL".  :wubit:

#18 MLGathome

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Posted Feb 04 2021 - 04:05 AM

View PostJoseph P, on Feb 03 2021 - 04:11 PM, said:

Thanks gents!

Edit: All good pointers and I do plan to get w a league once I am sure I am safe. On the video cited by JonnyA, I get that it was for purposes of showing how the diff functions and how changes affect it. However, is it expected on GPL to saw the wheel like that once a driver gets pace in his/her driving?

I ask because in the sims I've driven previously a lot of streering input to catch the back end usually destroyed tires and ultimately the car. But maybe for the 67s that's just how they are raced because the tires dont wear very much? Really appreciate the insights!

Erik started with a controller. He could confirm if he already had a wheel in this video.

Greetings, Marcel

#19 JonnyA

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Posted Feb 04 2021 - 06:57 AM

I guess in the video Erik may also be deliberately over-driving to show the effects of the diff more clearly.

Also watch some GP Laps videos for good driving technique.

#20 John Woods

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Posted Feb 04 2021 - 08:24 AM

Grand Prix Legends is a simulator.

Learn what to simulate and do that.

If you cannot make your car do what you learn it should be doing for you, learn how to change the race rig or setup so it does.

GPL WEEKLY posts qualification times, fast laps, and race results for on-line leagues and drivers. Check your times against those already really racing to see where you would sit on a grid.

If it is near the front, team managers want to visit with you.
If it is in the middle and you can finish a race, any team with an opening will welcome you.
If you would sit near or at the back of the grid and can post a time within 107% of the pole, everyone will welcome you, wish you well, and not worry too much about a novice on track until and if they come around to lap you. (Yielding when being lapped or passed by a faster driver btw is a routine on-line skill few learn racing against AI).

During any open practice anyone, whether they get on track or not, can watch drivers on track using any of the car cam views.

There are several YT videos of 60s drivers showing technique.

Be your own expert.
:)

Edited by John Woods, Feb 04 2021 - 08:27 AM.





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