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Older Racers: Do You Suffer Pain While Racing?


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#1 Spadowski

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Posted Apr 13 2019 - 03:02 PM

I've not really raced for a couple of years and only started up again the last couple of months and I notice my shoulders are absolutely buggered. I don't know if it's the wheel size (I'm using the T300 and it's fairly small, but I've no idea how to make it larger. Yes you can buy replacement wheels for it but that's not doable financially.)

Just wanted to see if anyone else gets pain from racing. (Other than mental. HAHA!) I mean I'm messed up anyway. Nerve damage in my feet from medical issues in 2010 causes issues but not pain, and my back has been hosed for 20 years so I'm used to that, but this shoulder thing is new. I've lowered the rotation of the wheel to 320 but I'm debating going back to the original 270 of my first wheel to see if that alleviates anything.

Anyone got any thoughts or ideas? It's bad having to take painkillers just so I can drive.

#2 Cookie

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Posted Apr 13 2019 - 05:26 PM

I am 69 and have no pains from driving GPL, I am doing 3-4 races every week, sitting in my rig for 1.5 - 2 hours + some practice hours...
I use a G27 wich has a small diameter, at 420Β° rotation with a steering bias of 9-11 .
IMO you have to look for a good ergonomic position of your seat - wheel - pedals - monitor  combination first.
If you can't sit fully relaxed, you will suffer sooner or later.

I had bought a cheap rig with a raceseat for small chinese guys, but I am a tall german...
It took some time and some handcraft to make this thing fit my size, now I can do a full GP without physical pain.

Edited by Cookie, Apr 13 2019 - 05:30 PM.


#3 Bob Simpson

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Posted Apr 13 2019 - 05:42 PM

If  the force required to turn the wheel is too much, you can make it easier in the core.ini.  The torque setting needs to be set higher to reduce the force.

#4 John Woods

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Posted Apr 13 2019 - 06:57 PM

The Four C's of Proper Form: Confidence, Courage, Calm Down, Concentrate.

If you skip the third one everything falls apart.
Brain fries, muscles tense.
Athletes focus on breathing to regain composure and relax when the moment is critical.

If you notice 1) you are not breathing until you have to take a breath, or 2) you are taking short, shallow breaths, that is a signal anxiety is interfering and causing tension everywhere.

The area between the shoulders is called "The Trap" because it is where all tension intersects. If there is pain it is because there is a lot of tension somewhere else.

Tension somewhere else could be caused by ergonomics - seat, seat back, seat back angle, arm height at the wheel relative to shoulders, distance from shoulders to wheel, height of seat above pedals, distance to pedals...

A quick search found this:https://www.roadandt...iving-position/

A third thing to consider is hydration because lack of it can tighten everything up, cause mild hallucinations, and result in muscle tension lock-up. If water feels wet when you drink it, by definition you are dehydrated.


Just call me Dr. John
:D

#5 Tormentor

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Posted Apr 13 2019 - 10:18 PM

I got shoulder pains if my steering wheel was to high and / or to far away. T300 with 360Β° here also. Maybe its just your seating position that needs to be changed now. Can you attache a photo of your "working place"?

#6 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Apr 14 2019 - 07:47 AM

I'll bet your FF settings are too high. I'll get pain from old injuries if I set mine high. I have very low settings. Just enough to center the wheel.

Not a big deal for me. For years I used a TSW wheel which had no FF at all. I don't need help turning the wheel. I know when to turn it. I've always considered FF an aid and don't like using it.

Try a light FF setting and see if it helps.

#7 JMF

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Posted Apr 14 2019 - 09:42 AM

I always feel pain now. Carpentry, mechanic, plumbing, and lumberjack work will do that to anybody.

The only pain I get from GPL is in my ankles and feet. Nothing else I do keeps them as tense as GPL.

I'd look for a good seating position, regular muscle stretching, light exercise, and a diet that helps reduce inflamation.

My right shoulder is bothering me too. I'm left handed and the tendonitis in my left elbow has gotten so bad that I started favoring my right arm. It think that's increased the strength of my right shoulder and that's putting pressure on my right rotator cuff. If I regularly tried to strengthen my rotator cuff, the pain in my right shoulder would likely go away. I had the same problem with my left shoulder/rotator cuff many years ago.

Edited by JMF, Apr 14 2019 - 09:42 AM.


#8 twinpotter

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Posted Apr 14 2019 - 10:32 AM

As Sir Jackie Stewart used to say, and similiar to what John as said, "When your racing it's important to remove all emotions" positive and negative.

I would personally (as well as the obvious with pre care of excercise and diet) do a quick warm up with stretches (5 mins max) and then afterwards a cooldown with stretches.

Again as John as mentioned fluids, with plenty of water and also eliminate alcohol or caffeine or anything with high sugar content. Including doughnutsπŸ˜‚ Lol

Also, if possible (know it's difficult to) take a break from racing and go for a walk around your room or outside for fresh air and try to do some dynamic stretches.

Maybe Igor and GPL online sites, can have an half time break with oranges 🍊 πŸ€”πŸ˜‚

Jmf and others. Do you wear shoes or socks when driving. I suffer from plantar fascitis and this helps. Some info below.

https://www.reddit.c...hen_sim_racing/

https://www.avforums...-boots.1737001/

https://www.racedepa...footwear.48523/

https://www.gtplanet...-racing.131783/

https://fasttracksim...sim-racing-shoe

https://www.amazon.c...r/dp/B07646X6SD

TP: 🏁

Edited by twinpotter, Apr 14 2019 - 10:55 AM.


#9 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Apr 14 2019 - 10:48 AM

Tension won't give pain in the shoulders. Between the shoulders, yes, but not in the shoulders. Mostly, it will be in the neck.

#10 twinpotter

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Posted Apr 14 2019 - 11:00 AM

So again warm up stretches for the neck by rotating steadily the head left then right, with hands on hips and body straight forward, so you look over the shoulders in relevant direction. Hold steadily for 30 seconds.

I would also do some shoulder rolls and clasp hands together then push out in front and above head. Maybe arms and hands pointing out to side and straight at shoulder length, then twist top half of body to the left and right, keeping arms straight and body steady.

Anyone for tennis πŸ˜πŸ˜‚

TP: πŸ˜πŸ‘

Edited by twinpotter, Apr 14 2019 - 11:32 AM.


#11 chris skepis

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Posted Apr 15 2019 - 11:49 AM

Since last December,  I am able to do only 8 to 10 laps. Then the pain on my shoulders became unbearable. But the funny thing is, when I am driving my real car, I donΒ΄t feel anything. I can drive for hours and nothing happens. But as soon as I sit in front of my G27, I feel like Dr. Smith from Lost In Space tv series. "The Pain.....The Pain " !!!!

#12 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Apr 15 2019 - 01:26 PM

Probably the fast movements we make in the wheel when racing Chris.

#13 Spadowski

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Posted Apr 15 2019 - 02:54 PM

Thanks for the replies. It's definitely not tension. Or stress. I'm racing offline 99% of the time these days. Only get stressed when I'm on iRacing with other people.

I'm disabled so it could just be the natural deterioration of this worthless husk. HAHA!

View PostTormentor, on Apr 13 2019 - 10:18 PM, said:

I got shoulder pains if my steering wheel was to high and / or to far away. T300 with 360Β° here also. Maybe its just your seating position that needs to be changed now. Can you attache a photo of your "working place"?

Now this is interesting. I hadn't raced in a fair while before getting the new wheel. Now I'm wondering if it's something to do with the T300 specifically.  I'm wondering how I can bolster myself up, since sadly lowering the wheel isn't an option. It's definitely not too far away.

View PostPete Gaimari, on Apr 14 2019 - 07:47 AM, said:

I'll bet your FF settings are too high. I'll get pain from old injuries if I set mine high. I have very low settings. Just enough to center the wheel.

Not a big deal for me. For years I used a TSW wheel which had no FF at all. I don't need help turning the wheel. I know when to turn it. I've always considered FF an aid and don't like using it.

Try a light FF setting and see if it helps.

Definitely not the FF. I can barely feel it above the resistance of the wheel in GPL. I've turned my FFB way down across the board recently.

View PostJMF, on Apr 14 2019 - 09:42 AM, said:

I always feel pain now. Carpentry, mechanic, plumbing, and lumberjack work will do that to anybody.

The only pain I get from GPL is in my ankles and feet. Nothing else I do keeps them as tense as GPL.

I'd look for a good seating position, regular muscle stretching, light exercise, and a diet that helps reduce inflamation.

My right shoulder is bothering me too. I'm left handed and the tendonitis in my left elbow has gotten so bad that I started favoring my right arm. It think that's increased the strength of my right shoulder and that's putting pressure on my right rotator cuff. If I regularly tried to strengthen my rotator cuff, the pain in my right shoulder would likely go away. I had the same problem with my left shoulder/rotator cuff many years ago.

My rotator cuff in my left shoulder has been screwed for years but apparently not enough to warrant doing anything about it. (I just can't raise my shoulder above horizontal unless I want to start whimpering in pain.) I have chronic back issues from undiagnosed scoliosis and being "put together wrong" (that was the actual official diagnosis), But the shoulder thing when driving is new. I mean I was doing 3 hour stints in endurance races as of a couple of years ago.

View Postchris skepis, on Apr 15 2019 - 11:49 AM, said:

Since last December,  I am able to do only 8 to 10 laps. Then the pain on my shoulders became unbearable. But the funny thing is, when I am driving my real car, I donΒ΄t feel anything. I can drive for hours and nothing happens. But as soon as I sit in front of my G27, I feel like Dr. Smith from Lost In Space tv series. "The Pain.....The Pain " !!!!

Is the pain IN your shoulder joints? Because if so, MY BROTHER! And likewise, I've no issue with a real car. I mean at Christmas I had to drive a 4 hour round trip on the 23rd and then against on the 26th to get and dump my mother in law. Aside from a bit of knee pain (I'm 6'8" and cars just ain't built for me) I was fine.

Guess I need to figure out how to raise myself up some at my driving seat. My wheel is basically attached to my desk and I'm sitting in an old living room chair. This setup was fine for the last 10+ years.

I'm thinking it must be the new wheel position.

#14 twinpotter

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Posted Apr 15 2019 - 03:25 PM

Spadowski, your living room chair and the wheel attachment, to your desk is the key concern here.
Seems that your body core is too rigid and that the upper body is therefore suffering.

I invested some years ago, into a top of the range comfy leather and adjustable office chair, with also a wheel stand. Which can be adjusted, to suit your body alignment, keeping you nice and comfortable. This stand also puts your position away from the desk or screen, so that your not on or over the top of it and possibly at a rigid angle. Obviously this luxury depends on your room too.

TP: 🏁

Edited by twinpotter, Apr 15 2019 - 03:29 PM.


#15 Spadowski

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Posted Apr 15 2019 - 05:30 PM

My current setup has worked well for years. It's very relaxed and until recent times I was able to race for hours without issues.

Putting aside the fact I have NO MONEY (seriously, being disabled also means being poor), space precludes that setup here. However we are HOPING TO MOVE later this year, so I could setup accordingly.

I'm a big guy so weight is an issue with a lot of seating stuff. Like the fancy chairs you can get, I can only get the very expensive one because of weight limits. Anyway, my ideal setup is like this.

https://i.ebayimg.co...c7Pw/s-l300.jpg

Sadly it'll probably never happen, which leaves this which IS doable in our current living space: https://www.overcloc...835_800x800.jpg

But again cost is the issue since I need the expensive heavy duty one due to being a heavy bugger. (Comes with the 6'8" territory). Case in point: Only DX Racer chair that would work for me, the cheapest is $550 Canadian. That's basically half my rent. I would stuff it on the Visa, but... I already did that with the wheel:(

However for now I've moved myself closer to the wheel than I'd like but it seems to have alleviated some of the aching. Going to go shopping for a cushion or similar tomorrow to raise me up as well.

Forgot to mention the other issue I have with sim racing. Nerve damage in my feet. (Caused by Fluroquinolone antibiotics when I was very ill in 2010). It makes braking a huge pain in the ass as I have very little pedal feel really anymore and it's hard to modulate the pressure.

I should get a hobby that involves sleeping. HAHA!

Edited by Spadowski, Apr 15 2019 - 05:36 PM.


#16 robwmack

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Posted Apr 15 2019 - 09:26 PM

Hi Spadowski!

Don't think I can help much. My problem has always been my arms going numb. I have to take them off the wheel and shake them every few minutes. Same thing happens on long trips in the family car.

I'm 63 and like you I'm rather crippled at the moment. My pain mainly occurs when getting into or out of my racing setup.

Back in the 1970's I raced Formula Vee and had two problems. After a race at Mosport or Shannonville, when I got out of the car I couldn't straighten my fingers from the grip I had on the steering wheel. (I developed a lighter grip later when I raced Formula Fords.) The other problem I had also occurred after getting out of the car after a race. I was too big for the car (or maybe it was too small for me!). So my legs were terribly cramped by the end of the race. I couldn't straighten my legs or walk and was in terrible pain for several minutes. By coincidence this is the same problem I now have when sitting too long due to spinal stenosis.

I hope you find a solution to your pain. Sim racing s too much fun to give up!

Edited by robwmack, Apr 15 2019 - 09:27 PM.


#17 Spadowski

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Posted Apr 16 2019 - 04:46 PM

View Postrobwmack, on Apr 15 2019 - 09:26 PM, said:

Hi Spadowski!

Don't think I can help much. My problem has always been my arms going numb. I have to take them off the wheel and shake them every few minutes. Same thing happens on long trips in the family car.

I'm 63 and like you I'm rather crippled at the moment. My pain mainly occurs when getting into or out of my racing setup.

Back in the 1970's I raced Formula Vee and had two problems. After a race at Mosport or Shannonville, when I got out of the car I couldn't straighten my fingers from the grip I had on the steering wheel. (I developed a lighter grip later when I raced Formula Fords.) The other problem I had also occurred after getting out of the car after a race. I was too big for the car (or maybe it was too small for me!). So my legs were terribly cramped by the end of the race. I couldn't straighten my legs or walk and was in terrible pain for several minutes. By coincidence this is the same problem I now have when sitting too long due to spinal stenosis.

I hope you find a solution to your pain. Sim racing s too much fun to give up!

Be a cold day in Hell before I give up:) Over long races I get wrist pain. What's frustrating on my old DFGT wheel with the sequential shifter I never had an issue, I think because my right hand was constantly coming off the wheel. Since going paddle only I get the pain now.

Envious you've raced for real. I can imagine the grip issue. Being cramped in a car I once drove a compact we rented and felt like that when I tried to get out.

I'm a pro wrestling fan and spinal stenosis has hurt several wrestlers I liked over the years.

Walking is starting to suck for me. Fell down some stairs at Christmas, and two days into hobbling around I fell AGAIN and tore something in my lower back and I've not been able to walk properly since. I was already on a pain patch AND codeine. *sigh*

I see you're in Manitoba. I'm over here in Edmonton:) *waves*

#18 robwmack

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Posted Apr 16 2019 - 08:23 PM

Hi Spadowski!

Hey, we're practically neighbours! We moved here (Gilbert Plains) almost two years ago from Ontario. Our son in-law and daughter came out here four years ago when he got his residency posting in Dauphin. They love it out here (both are animal crazy and the rural setting is perfect for them) and it was clear from the start they weren't coming back to Ontario. When they announced that our first grandchild was on the way we decided we didn't want to be that far away. So we sold our house in Welland, I retired from my job in Toronto and we packed our bags and moved west. We love it here. The relaxed pace is wonderful after a life spent in the ever increasing congestion, traffic, general hubbub and noise of the "Golden Horseshoe".

I consider myself very fortunate to have been able to race as long as I did. I didn't have the money or talent to go very far. But while I was doing it I was living m dream. I wouldn't have missed it for the world.

My physical woes are probably the result of playing hockey too late in life. I was a goalie and was still playing in my late fifties. Then I started to have leg pain with no apparent cause. None of the doctors, physiotherapists, chiropractors or acupuncturists I saw in Ontario seemed to know what was going on. That is except the heart specialist who performed an angiogram on me. When I described my symptoms to him he immediately said, "Oh, that's spinal.". I finally had that diagnosis confirmed in Winnipeg a year ago and I'm set to see a back surgeon in May. In the meantime I have put on weight and my knees which were also iffy are now shot. So in addition to spinal surgery I am now looking at two knee replacements. The worst part of it is the time it has taken to get it dealt with. It has been going on for several years and I am probably another couple of years from resolution.

But I can't complain too much. Apart from this life is good. It's great to be part of the GPL community and to meet kindred spirits from just "down the road"

Cheers!

#19 Spadowski

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Posted Apr 16 2019 - 10:20 PM

Hi Rob!

You and I are very similar. I had back issues from my teen years. Got worse in 2002. Much worse. Took until 2005 to get a diagnosis. Then in 2010 I was gravely ill. (Multiple organ failure.) Fought back but have a ton of health issues off that. My knees are shot too!

We very much want to move out of the province here but sadly finances preclude so we're stuck here.

So what's the weather like out there? Both winter and summer? I love the cold, the summers here can be brutal.

#20 twinpotter

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Posted Apr 17 2019 - 01:42 PM

Did I hear the word hockey, as in Ice hockey.

Watching the Stanley cup play offs this yearπŸ’

Hoping for a Canadian winner, after a long while πŸ€”

Always had a soft spot for the Leafs. Hoping it's going to be them 😁

Favourite player Leafs legend Tie Domi πŸ‘

TP: 😁




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