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69Modextra World Record Set Ups


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#16 Robert Fleurke

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Posted Feb 01 2014 - 10:29 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Jan 31 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

One more comment to everybody. Taking an alien setup an d toning it down is not the best way to go. The setup was built to work as is, and is balanced.

Actually many of the alien setups aren't balanced and have "wrong" wheelrates (looking at total weight and weightbalance). When the suspension setup is right, you can change the diff without probs IMHO. It's about your driving style, how hard/smooth you are on and off the throttle. The balance you can adjust with the ARB's. Little toe out at the front (negative toe in) for better turn in, but not as much many aliens use, as many seem to use it for balance rather than better turn in.

This is what I learnt lately, with help of others and in particular John Roberts.

PS: the 69X setups I put here might have wrong wheelrates as well, as it was before I knew how to calculate them in a correct way.

Edited by Robert Fleurke, Feb 01 2014 - 10:32 AM.


#17 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Feb 01 2014 - 11:01 AM

You're assuming the real wheel rates transfer to the settings in GPL. We're not talking about setting up the real cars.

Saying a WR setup is wrong is hard to swallow if you accept results as being right. It might seem wrong for someone who has a hard time driving the setup, but it doesn't make it wrong for GPL. Right is what works best.

#18 Robert Fleurke

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Posted Feb 01 2014 - 11:14 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Feb 01 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

You're assuming the real wheel rates transfer to the settings in GPL. We're not talking about setting up the real cars.

Saying a WR setup is wrong is hard to swallow if you accept results as being right. It might seem wrong for someone who has a hard time driving the setup, but it doesn't make it wrong for GPL. Right is what works best.

These wheelrates do transfer from real cars to GPL, it's in the physics AFAIK. Point is many guys use wheelrates not for weight(balance)/not bottoming out, but for driving balance, as they often do with toe settings. Instead of using the bars for balance.

Ofcourse there's no wrong or right in setups, that why I said "wrong".  What I meant it's theoretically wrong, and remember these alien setups are often hotlap setups for  a few laps, after that the balance goes away or the tiretemps will get too high...

#19 SteveC43

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Posted Feb 01 2014 - 11:39 AM

View PostRobert Fleurke, on Feb 01 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

  What I meant it's theoretically wrong, and remember these alien setups are often hotlap setups for  a few laps, after that the balance goes away or the tiretemps will get too high...

The majority of mine I just added gas to and raced with no changes. I'd just back off a bit if I started overheating tires.

Edited by SteveC43, Feb 01 2014 - 11:42 AM.


#20 Robert Fleurke

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Posted Feb 01 2014 - 11:54 AM

View PostSteveC43, on Feb 01 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

View PostRobert Fleurke, on Feb 01 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

  What I meant it's theoretically wrong, and remember these alien setups are often hotlap setups for  a few laps, after that the balance goes away or the tiretemps will get too high...

The majority of mine I just added gas to and raced with no changes. I'd just back off a bit if I started overheating tires.

I understand Steve. The real good aliens are those who are good racers: who win races and are consistently fast :)

Edited by Robert Fleurke, Feb 01 2014 - 12:26 PM.


#21 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Feb 01 2014 - 01:59 PM

Just for reference. I don't know if you remember the thread i started to try and find a realistic setup. Realistic to the real cars that is.

I made what I thought was close to the real cars. Even with a 45/85/1 diff setting. It had so much understeer I found it undrivable. That pretty much made me give up trying to duplicate the real settings. Maybe the wheel rates are close, but the rest can't be close.

I used to talk to Andy Wilkes a lot in the old days. he told me the setups he posted were what he raced. Loose setups are easy on tire temps, because they turn so well. It's an understeering setup that overheats the front tires. Also a loose diff setting on the power side will overheat the inside rear tire from so much tire slip coming off the turns.

I remember when I first started to drive GPL tires overheating was a big problem. Once I satrted to go to looser setups like Steve's and the other aliens. Tire heat wasn't a problem anymore. as a matter of fact. If you didn't really push hard. You couldn't get enough heat in the tires for maximum grip.

#22 Josef Paul

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Posted Feb 01 2014 - 01:59 PM

Steve, your contribution is still being appreciated. I loaded your 65 Lotus replay at the Ring along with Phil's and my own. I merged the laps and spent a very enjoyable 8 minutes watching you guys slowly get away. I was 7 seconds behind at the end and very motivated to get closer. I loaded up your setup and went back to work. My point being that, hopefully, nothing in GPL entirely goes away.

#23 Robert Fleurke

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Posted Feb 01 2014 - 07:11 PM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Feb 01 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

Just for reference. I don't know if you remember the thread i started to try and find a realistic setup. Realistic to the real cars that is.

I made what I thought was close to the real cars. Even with a 45/85/1 diff setting. It had so much understeer I found it undrivable. That pretty much made me give up trying to duplicate the real settings. Maybe the wheel rates are close, but the rest can't be close.

I used to talk to Andy Wilkes a lot in the old days. he told me the setups he posted were what he raced. Loose setups are easy on tire temps, because they turn so well. It's an understeering setup that overheats the front tires. Also a loose diff setting on the power side will overheat the inside rear tire from so much tire slip coming off the turns.

I remember when I first started to drive GPL tires overheating was a big problem. Once I satrted to go to looser setups like Steve's and the other aliens. Tire heat wasn't a problem anymore. as a matter of fact. If you didn't really push hard. You couldn't get enough heat in the tires for maximum grip.

I basically agree with what you say. :) Used to race guys like Andy and Greger, only in N2003 leagues that was. Great guys on and off the track!

This is how I setup the car:

I want an amount of wheelrate correctly, and the ratio between front rear, so that it's balanced over the car's total weight including driverweight and fuel (in GPL!, not duplicating real 1967 settings), with the right weightbalance (often in approach as I don't know the exact weightbalance for most mods, however I think most default setups have the right wheelrates as a base). Depending on the track characteristics you need to add some and keep the ratio in order not to bottom out. You want the car as low as possible for a low gravity centre. Ofcourse sometimes (especially at tracks with lots of height differences) you need to have a higher ride height and bigger bump rubbers in order not to bottom out. Like at the Nürburgring going up and down.

For the rest it's tire analysis and adjusting tirepressures and camber and find the right amount of ARB, and a ratio to find the right balance. I keep conservative toe settings, little toe out/little toe in. Mostly use average bump/rebound settings. Further tweaking diff and eventually fine tuning it with GPL setupmanager, plus gearing, brakebias and strg lock. I use mostly diffs with 5-7% locking percentage (45/45/1 and alike) on both sides, on and off.  I want my tiretemps in balance front/rear, rather a slight balance to the rear, I hate understeer, and when the fuel burns off you will get slightly more understeer, in my experience, due to the shifting weight balance I guess. But by your driving you can manage the tiretemps also...then it's basically only finetuning, and finding the right ARB amount and ratio in the end to find the balance I like. Qual setup has less fuel, 1% less brakebias, and slightly more rear bar.

In the end it's a personal thing, setups, everyone drives different and has their own preferences. There is absolutely no right or wrong in setups. If it works for you, then it's right for you. But having a certain method setting up and creating a base setup might help, this has become my method now. When you drive the same sort setups you get used to it and will be more comfortable predicting how the car will handle, giving more confidence. :racer:

Edited by Robert Fleurke, Feb 01 2014 - 07:22 PM.


#24 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Feb 02 2014 - 10:48 AM

Yes, that's the bottom line Robert. No matter how fast a setup is for someone else. It won't work for someone else if it isn't comfortable to drive. We all know what we like the car to feel like.

I thought I read Greg Stewart say one time he could get within 2 seconds of his fastest times at each track with the stock default setups with fuel removed. That would still put him around -70. Sort of proves aliens aren't fast, because of their setups. They're fast, because of talent.

Edited by Pete Gaimari, Feb 02 2014 - 10:49 AM.


#25 ccc

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Posted Feb 16 2014 - 02:28 AM

paco   i am using sc69 setup you don;t really have to change anything to make them work in the 69x just have to do lap time in them, to get used the the feel of the track in the 69x rank

btw what time you got on gplrank

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