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Stock Car Extreme Reiza AMS

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#61 John Woods

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Posted Aug 26 2016 - 08:18 AM

Guess I don't understand this yet. (Go figure! :D)
Artificially enhancing grip on an "ideal line" makes things more real?

Different classes of cars should take different lines...lighter versus heavy, power versus less power, FWD vs RWD, 4WD?
Seems it would be a lot more difficult to set up a pass on exit if off ideal line has less grip?

We all hate tire marbles?
Except the driver in front.

Is this an option?

Edited by John Woods, Aug 26 2016 - 08:29 AM.


#62 David Wright Lo67

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Posted Aug 26 2016 - 09:47 AM

i

View PostJohn Woods, on Aug 26 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

Guess I don't understand this yet. (Go figure! :D)
Artificially enhancing grip on an "ideal line" makes things more real?

Progressively enhancing grip on the racing line makes things more real.

Quote

Different classes of cars should take different lines...lighter versus heavy, power versus less power, FWD vs RWD, 4WD?

If your sim just simulates one class of car like in the good old days this isn't an issue.  To be honest in road racing I think the natural variations in drivers style and small driving errors mean the rubbered in line is reasonably broad and the differences between different classes of car are not that significant.

The biggest issue is oval racing where cars can take very different lines.   The more advanced dynamic track rubbering systems in sims such as iRacing, rFactor2 and pCARs rubber the track in where the cars actually drive.

Quote

Seems it would be a lot more difficult to set up a pass on exit if off ideal line has less grip?
Yes.  Its about realism rather than ease of racing.

Quote

We all hate tire marbles?
Except the driver in front.

Is this an option?

Marbles are included in all the dynamic track simulations.  

If you want to learn more this iRacing video may be helpful

https://www.youtube....h?v=WGF4iOSRt8I

iRacing's dynamic track is in theory the most sophisticated currently available in any sim, influenced no doubt by the importance of oval racing in this sim.

#63 John Woods

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Posted Aug 26 2016 - 11:17 AM

Very good answers David, (as usual), thank you.
:)
Now understand where/how/why this makes sense, especially the progressive rubbering-in part.

Edited by John Woods, Aug 26 2016 - 11:17 AM.


#64 mcmirande

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Posted Aug 27 2016 - 09:30 AM

But thinking in our beloved 60's formula 1 cars, I think that rubbering of the track was probably much lower than in current race cars, given that those tyres were much harder.

So... I think that the absence of such feature is more problematic for cars racing with slick tyres than for GPL ones...

#65 John Woods

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Posted Aug 27 2016 - 10:29 AM

Recently commented on another thread about the very different lines different classes of cars take thru Canada Corner, as revealed in a fan video from well above the turn.

Early racing history featured many long road circuits with many turns and fewer laps, so not much rubbering in would be my guess.

Maybe at shorter circuits like Silverstone or Mosport there may have been some.
But as mcmirande suggests, not a lot with harder tires?
Maybe on circuits like Le Mans or on other very long endurance races?

At first read, enhancing the ideal line seemed like the driver assist features in Grand Prix Legends or the ideal line overlays from EAS. Now it makes a lot more sense, (very complex sense), and surely things will get even more sophisticated in the future.

Very exciting to see so much crest of the wave innovation going on.

Belated thanks to Remco also for linking the video a few posts above.

#66 David Wright Lo67

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Posted Aug 27 2016 - 11:42 AM

If you watch Nine Days in Summer its clear that in 67 the racing line is darker than the rest of the track, so I'm pretty sure the track still rubbered in.  With modern slicks, the racing line itself doesn't seem to get any darker than it did back in the day.  So what happens to the rubber in modern tyres?  I would suggest it ends up as marbles, and of course  marbles have reached an extreme with the current generation of F1 tyres.  In GT racing, the marbles are nothing like as bad.  

Back in the 60s, they did refer to marbles, but marbles were dust and grit rather than chunks of rubber., Naturally they still had an adverse effect on grip.

Edited by David Wright Lo67, Aug 27 2016 - 11:43 AM.


#67 Michkov

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Posted Aug 27 2016 - 02:56 PM

Reading through old race reports you find lots of mentions of evolving tracks. Mostly the grip got worse, as the cars tended to leave behind a trail of fluids even when running as intended. Together with the track heating up the surface tends to get greasy. There is also the dust dragged onto the surface from cutting corners

I'm not doubting that the track would rubber in but with the hard tyres of the era, my feeling is the effect mentioned above had a bigger effect.

Edited by Michkov, Aug 27 2016 - 02:57 PM.


#68 Andreh

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Posted Aug 29 2016 - 04:58 PM

Just to add a bit, in Gilles biography is mentioned that after qualifying he would stop at his grid position and spin wheels to rubber his grid spot, so he would get a better jump at start.




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