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Monaco 1967 Chicane In Gpl : Rather Monacane Than Monaco.


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#41 M Needforspeed

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Posted Mar 11 2012 - 03:05 AM

After further investigations, crossing infos on various books on Monaco GP, I  can confirm at the moment that for 1966 and 1967 races, the distance and position of the chicane apexes were strictly identical
  
   One book of particular interest is the huge encyclopedia ( 4 big volumes !) " Grand Prix Automobile de Monaco" by Christian Moity that identified every change at the track between years,  certainly the most detailed and best work ever done on the Monaco race.
   compared with 66, organizers moved the control tower and the S/F line towards St Devote corner. That 's all they identified.Swen and the Monaco rock team used those infos  when we posted at the RSC thread.

   Good new is the data on the Frankenheimer movie can be used for the 67 chicane appreciation

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Edited by M Needforspeed, Mar 11 2012 - 03:23 AM.


#42 maddog

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Posted Mar 11 2012 - 12:20 PM

Some good research work here guys!  Monaco Rocks was a great achievement in realism, from within the confines of the original Papy track.  A reconfigured chicane creates a new track, with altered lap times.  I suspect this is why it was not altered.

A realistic escape road would not have affected laptimes . . . unless you use it!  Some extra trackside objects, without collision, and an accurate runoff are overdue.  If that means cars are able to turn around and rejoin, after a detour, I don't see that as being a greater hazard, than bouncing off the bales, currently in need of removal. :shrug:

A new chicane would mean a new track, with added realism.  Monocane 2 is lurking behind a haybale! :yeah:

#43 M Needforspeed

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Posted Mar 11 2012 - 01:26 PM

View Postmaddog, on Mar 11 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

Some good research work here guys!  Monaco Rocks was a great achievement in realism, from within the confines of the original Papy track.  A reconfigured chicane creates a new track, with altered lap times.  I suspect this is why it was not altered.

A realistic escape road would not have affected laptimes . . . unless you use it!  Some extra trackside objects, without collision, and an accurate runoff are overdue.  If that means cars are able to turn around and rejoin, after a detour, I don't see that as being a greater hazard, than bouncing off the bales, currently in need of removal. :shrug:

A new chicane would mean a new track, with added realism.  Monocane 2 is lurking behind a haybale! :yeah:
   Martin,


Do you mean there is hope for a work on some additions of the chicane ? :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:

I wld be happy to get those correct Shell barriers, rail bag and escape road .Hope we are some to vote for this !

You have seen Monacane already include all the Monaco rocks add ons, apart at that place

Edited by M Needforspeed, Mar 11 2012 - 01:27 PM.


#44 davef

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Posted Mar 11 2012 - 01:54 PM

View PostM Needforspeed, on Mar 11 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:



I wld be happy to get those correct Shell barriers, rail bag and escape road .Hope we are some to vote for this !

You have seen Monacane already include all the Monaco rocks add ons, apart at that place
+1 :thumbup: Another scene from "Grand Prix" that might prove helpful-Remember after Stoddard & Aaron
have their collision approaching the chicane,there is a scene showing the chicane from almost same
perspective as photos posted here looking up the hill.Stoddard is in car injured and medical personnel
and track workers attend to him.Cars go thru chicane at speed. :wave:

Edited by davef, Mar 11 2012 - 01:54 PM.


#45 svenvangent

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Posted Mar 11 2012 - 02:55 PM

Hallo guy's ,

he he its funny to read al these different views/opinions about the chicane hope you find a solution .
Now that this is going on i have also something i want to throw  in this topic , the first thing in Monaco is the TUNNEL .....is tunnel in Monaco not to short and second one is .. after the chicane you come at the turn " TABAC " just befor you have a elevation see pic .
First is from real race second from RF 2 , you can see it very clear .

greets  :hat-tip:

Edited by svenvangent, Mar 11 2012 - 03:02 PM.


#46 M Needforspeed

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Posted Mar 11 2012 - 05:31 PM

interesting bump, Svenvagent

   together, 1966 and 1967 apexes; The ditch is one of the mark to compare the apex on the left position . If there is a difference, that 's hard to find, isn 't ?

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Edited by M Needforspeed, Mar 11 2012 - 05:37 PM.


#47 maddog

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Posted Mar 11 2012 - 05:32 PM

View PostM Needforspeed, on Mar 11 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Do you mean there is hope for a work on some additions of the chicane ? :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:
I'm not a track builder - it's a job requiring skill and patience, and there are only a few who have the talent.  But seems to me, there's been huge interest in this thread, and I suspect most of our talent, have been amongst it's viewers.

There are many requests, made on our artists, but having the hard data to back them up, makes such projects easier to tackle. :thumbup:

#48 M Needforspeed

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Posted Mar 11 2012 - 05:36 PM

View Postmaddog, on Mar 11 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

View PostM Needforspeed, on Mar 11 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Do you mean there is hope for a work on some additions of the chicane ? :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:
I'm not a track builder - it's a job requiring skill and patience, and there are only a few who have the talent.  But seems to me, there's been huge interest in this thread, and I suspect most of our talent, have been amongst it's viewers.

There are many requests, made on our artists, but having the hard data to back them up, makes such projects easier to tackle. :thumbup:

   We have all the time in the world !  Merci beaucoup, Martin :wave:for the support.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Mar 11 2012 - 05:47 PM.


#49 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Mar 11 2012 - 10:42 PM

I'd sure vote for a more accurate chicane added to MR. If it's possible.

It will be slower, so no problem with GPL Rank.

#50 davef

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Posted Mar 12 2012 - 10:47 AM

Went back and re-read the posts on this topic.So you guys think in
real life there was a braking zone? and/or lift and back on throttle
at 1st inside apex or before?They sure go fast through it in 67movie.

Edited by davef, Mar 12 2012 - 10:48 AM.


#51 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Mar 12 2012 - 10:49 AM

I could be wrong, but I think they downshifted too.

#52 M Needforspeed

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Posted Mar 12 2012 - 11:05 AM

View Postdavef, on Mar 12 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

Went back and re-read the posts on this topic.So you guys think in
real life there was a braking zone? and/or lift and back on throttle
at 1st inside apex or before?They sure go fast through it in 67movie.

   yes, I vote for the braking zone + downshifting .At the end of the straight line, their speed was 205/210 km/h. As suggested Pavel, I can 't see how they cld have managed to go down  :idunno:  to 100/110 km/ h without using brakes, in such a short time

   I cldn 't believe why on the 67 movie, cars seemed to go out so fast of the chicane, but  I imagine now, going out from a corner at 110/130 Km/h, will send to the eyes an impressive sensation of speed, already !!

   Downtown,in a city, on a large avenue, look at a car going at 130 km/h ( not easy to find one), and peasants will point out  immediatly at the mad driver !

Edited by M Needforspeed, Mar 12 2012 - 11:41 AM.


#53 davef

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Posted Mar 12 2012 - 11:43 AM

That makes sense,then upshift right at exit of chicane to get max speed to Tabac
along harbor? :D
very busy & tricky for 100 laps! :unsure:

Edited by davef, Mar 12 2012 - 11:54 AM.


#54 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Mar 12 2012 - 12:36 PM

View Postdavef, on Mar 12 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

That makes sense,then upshift right at exit of chicane to get max speed to Tabac
along harbor? :D
very busy & tricky for 100 laps! :unsure:

The whole track is kind of busy. :)

#55 M Needforspeed

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Posted Mar 12 2012 - 02:52 PM

View Postdavef, on Mar 12 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

That makes sense,then upshift right at exit of chicane to get max speed to Tabac
along harbor? :D
very busy & tricky for 100 laps! :unsure:

         if you didn 't already, the best thing is that you install MONACANE to mark your braking points

#56 davef

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Posted Mar 12 2012 - 03:02 PM

View PostM Needforspeed, on Mar 12 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

View Postdavef, on Mar 12 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

That makes sense,then upshift right at exit of chicane to get max speed to Tabac
along harbor? :D
very busy & tricky for 100 laps! :unsure:

         if you didn 't already, the best thing is that you install MONACANE to mark your braking points
Yes M Needforspeed-when I get home from work I will do that!Still been
using original Papy with latest Monaco Rocks.The Monocane version was a little
frustrating but all this last few days makes me determined to do it right!Thanks. :hat-tip:

#57 JohnnyAck

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Posted Mar 12 2012 - 08:08 PM

Sry been busy, will get a rpy, I didnt save one. I was in 5th for a bit, then as soon as I crested the hill, I got far right, and braked hard and dropped it into 2nd and was trying to be back to acceleration just at the first left side haybale, and power out fast to the next turn, which gained the most time that way. Basically like skiing thru there was the fast way, slalom.

#58 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Mar 12 2012 - 08:12 PM

Wow! You have to go all the way down to 2nd gear for the real chicane?

#59 Rudy Dingemans

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Posted Mar 13 2012 - 03:48 PM

Not necessarily Pete - it depends on the car. I guess in the little 65's it'd pay off more to downshift (more) to keep the revs up. But in the 66 3Litres or the 67s, I think all they did is lift off, possibly brake a bit. If you keep the momentum up, they have the grunt to power through.

But when testing the 66s, I did notice (as mentioned before) that this small change in the chicane turns out to have a pretty drastic effect on how you drive it, and on laptimes. On Monacane, I was much closer to the real life laptimes than on the 'old' GPL version. And it was much tougher to get those fast laps.

On the other hand, didn't have my rear wheels in the air quite as much down the chicane anymore, so that's good. </sarcasm>

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank: -40)

Edited by Rudy Dingemans, Mar 13 2012 - 03:49 PM.


#60 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Mar 13 2012 - 05:16 PM

It always bothered me to go full throttle through the chicane. I'm 100% sure i'd never do it in real life.




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