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Is It Worth Setting Up The Clutch And H-Pattern?


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#1 happyloaf

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Posted Jan 09 2021 - 05:49 PM

I have a G29 with the shifter and the pedals. The pedals are on a Bodnar cable. However, using Fairshift, I cannot seem to get my clutch and shifter mapped. Is this really worth going through the hassle to heal-toe (is that even possible in GPL) or should I just stick with the paddle shifters?

#2 KARTM

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Posted Jan 09 2021 - 06:01 PM

yes dont bother , its sim racing , the clutch and shift are not real ,they are pointless

Edited by KARTM, Jan 09 2021 - 06:02 PM.


#3 happyloaf

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Posted Jan 09 2021 - 06:25 PM

The sim is so old does it recognize the H-pattern (can I go from 4th to second without going to thirds? Does heel toe work to blip the throttle or does it feel "weird' in a sim this old?

#4 dbell84

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Posted Jan 09 2021 - 06:45 PM

Try using GPLShift.  It has 8 or 9 ways to set the shift pattern and you can set it so you have to use the clutch, if you want that. When using it, it will disable any auto blip and you can heal and toe just fine. Fair shift was mainly developed to eliminate any advantage gained by speed shifting in online racing and implemented a minimum shift time equal to what the game uses with paddle  shifting, .222 seconds iirc.

Edited by dbell84, Jan 09 2021 - 06:51 PM.


#5 jgf

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Posted Jan 09 2021 - 10:51 PM

All a matter of personal preference.

I'm quite happy with paddle shifters and just throttle and brake pedals;  this bit of "convenience" isn't historically accurate but helps compensate for lack of peripheral vision and tactile feedback from the car, both quite important in real life, especially in cars of that era.

#6 Millennium

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Posted Jan 10 2021 - 04:28 AM

H-shifters can allow you to shift faster than default, but since you use Fairshift you can not take advantage of it.

I would just stick to left foot braking and paddle shifters, you're not missing out on anything.

#7 Saiph

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Posted Jan 10 2021 - 05:34 AM

Since I've been using my G27 setup more and more last year, I've come to appreciate the immersion that the proper H-shifter and three-pedal arrangement gives you. I used to have problems under heavy braking and downshifting, and I couldn't seem to get the technique right for heel-and-toe (my throttle and brake pedals are too far apart). But over the last few months I've developed my own technique which seems to work for me, and I now find it really satisfying when I can complete a testing session or race using control methods which are very similar to real life.

Yes, when I use GPLShift (after reading the info in the configuration file carefully), it recognises my shifter with no problem. I can skip gears if I want to. For example I recently had a testing session at Oulton Park to check out Denis' new graphics for the track, and I was shifting straight from 3rd to 1st for the hairpin. You can also use the real heel-and-toe technique if you want, and it works just the same as in real life, preventing the rear wheels from losing grip under heavy braking and downshifting. It doesn't feel "weird" at all, it feels really natural, provided your pedals are set up with the correct distances between them.

For me, the gear shift and pedals have become a necessary part of my GPL driving (and now in many other driving sims too). When I was a kid and I used to see real-life drivers like Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart, I used to dream of being able to drive an F1 car the way they did, and at the time I never thought that it would be possible. But given today's PC technology, we can all sample quite a realistic version of what it was like for them. And for me personally, I feel that using the same controls that they did is part of the sim experience.

But as jgf says, in the end it's all a matter of personal preference.

The roots of GPL may be old, but the community has done a great job of keeping it up-to-date, and for me it's still the absolute best sim for historic car driving and racing.

Edited by Saiph, Jan 10 2021 - 05:40 AM.


#8 marco lenarduzzi

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Posted Jan 10 2021 - 06:16 AM

I agree with Saiph, it's a preference but one thing the H - pattern shifter gives you, is a more immersive and realistic experience.
Yes it takes some practice and patience ( in my case a lot of practice ) but it can be very rewarding. I've always felt more in control in a real car with a 4 or 5 speed manual gearbox and I feel the same way about GPL and other sims where older cars are considered.  

The most important thing to remember is to have fun :D

#9 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jan 10 2021 - 08:45 AM

Yes, using a clutch and h-shifter is worth it if you want to simulate driving a 1967 F1 car. Using paddles and LF braking is just making a game out of GPL. Using throttle with braking is even worse. The real car never could have taken that kind of abuse.

It's your choice. Do anything to go faster or drive like a 67 F1 driver.

btw..Don't kid yourself into thinking you're at a disadvantage driving a sim compared to doing it for real. Does anybody think they can really beat the times of Jim Clark in the real car?

#10 Saiph

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Posted Jan 10 2021 - 09:40 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Jan 10 2021 - 08:45 AM, said:

.....
..... Does anybody think they can really beat the times of Jim Clark in the real car?

*Donald Trump puts his hand up*  ;) :crazy: :D

#11 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jan 10 2021 - 09:48 AM

View PostSaiph, on Jan 10 2021 - 09:40 AM, said:

*Donald Trump puts his hand up*  ;) :crazy: :D

No kidding huh? What a jerk he is.

#12 Clutch

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Posted Jan 10 2021 - 10:40 AM

Gplshift user here with a H pattern shifter on my G25 wheel.
All personal preference ofcourse. Like others have said, I like it purely for immersion as it feels like I'm racing a car from the 50s / 60s

#13 ducwolf

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Posted Jan 10 2021 - 11:07 AM

My G25  H Shifter was broken a few weeks ago and going back to the paddles was extremly boring to me. It needs much time to get familiar with
three pedals and H shifting, but at last it is a much better immersion for simracing. Among gentlemen it's usual to use the clutch funktion activated in GPLShift to be forced to declutch
for shifting otherwise the shifter times are much faster than the paddle shifting.

#14 Roger_F

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Posted Jan 10 2021 - 11:27 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Jan 10 2021 - 08:45 AM, said:

Yes, using a clutch and h-shifter is worth it if you want to simulate driving a 1967 F1 car. Using paddles and LF braking is just making a game out of GPL. Using throttle with braking is even worse. The real car never could have taken that kind of abuse.

It's your choice. Do anything to go faster or drive like a 67 F1 driver.

btw..Don't kid yourself into thinking you're at a disadvantage driving a sim compared to doing it for real. Does anybody think they can really beat the times of Jim Clark in the real car?


Pete got me started on this conversion but I took a slightly different path.  Fair shift was inconsistent from mod to mod and the H pattern on the Logitech shifter is vague to say the least.  Rather than buy a new shifter and struggle through the connectivity issues of the new shifter and Fair shift I chose an alternate path; six speed gear box adaptation was also a hassle.

There is an interim solution that is close to what Pete is suggesting for those with a newer Logitech wheel and matching shifter.  Convert the shifter to sequential (many different excellent and inexpensive hardware solutions available), and map every control to the GPL "Options" control panel.  Upshift becomes button 14 and downshift becomes button 15; everything else stays the same.  You can use the paddle shifters for "look left" and "look right" if you like (another Pete suggestion if I remember correctly).

You get an automatic throttle blip on downshifts, no hassle on 6 speed boxes (included in some mods), and you retain the driver hands moving to the shifter (this was some how lost in the conversion to Fair shift).  Long story short,  left foot clutch, right foot break and gas, a very precise shifter and none of the technical hassles of adapting competing hardware and software.

Pete's path is the ultimate solution for those with hardware dollars and the technical patience and understanding to reach a fully functioning solution on every GPL Mod.  I ran out of some of those attributes.

All the best,
Roger

p.s. Thanks Pete for your thoughts and help on this journey.

#15 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jan 10 2021 - 11:44 AM

Roger..................It's easier on me. I gave up racing online a few years ago, so I don't have to use fairshift. I never speedshifted anyway, but I know i'd need to use fairshift for online racing.

iRacing burned me out on online racing.

Thanks for the kind thoughts. I am a stubborn old coot who's set in his ways. Racing, fly fishing, or hunting. I have strict rules for myself. I drive myself crazy sometimes.

#16 jgf

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Posted Jan 10 2021 - 12:42 PM

...

Edited by jgf, Jan 11 2021 - 12:52 PM.


#17 KARTM

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Posted Jan 10 2021 - 01:23 PM

and for  the real kick and feedback ,theres always the good old kart track  , now you can even rent  a race kart  for a very reasonable price ,a modern 125cc rotax kart ,have more acceleretion then a 67 F2 ,and for the lateral acceleration (absurdly call G force)  and braking  it beat any  race cars of the 60s , its like being a pro , you  just come with your kit (helmet ,suit,booth ect) , and its a good "cardio" :P

Edited by KARTM, Jan 10 2021 - 01:23 PM.


#18 Alan Davies

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Posted Jan 11 2021 - 03:18 AM

I have broken many a wheel and peddles in my time with GPL and have now been using a G25 for many years. The H shifter broke a long time ago so went over to using the stick as a sequential shift (a la touring car style).  That then broke; it would change gear with the slightest touch, sometimes it would change up and sometimes down never knowing which it would be; most unsatisfactory. So now it's paddle shifting R for up L for down (same as the Ferrari 955 Spyder that I tried around Goodwood). The trouble with paddles in GPL is that you will be changing gear in situations where you would normally not want to take a hand off the wheel to do so. It would be great if I could go back to sequential shift with the stick as it is a good compromise with reality as you have to think more about when and where you change gear.

#19 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Jan 11 2021 - 08:13 AM

View Postjgf, on Jan 10 2021 - 12:42 PM, said:

"Don't kid yourself into thinking you're at a disadvantage driving a sim compared to doing it for real."

When driving in real life, whether your street car or a race car, you receive and process subconsciously so much tactile information - the "feel" of the car -  not available in any sim, that there is little comparison.  

It is the same with flight sims, no matter how realistically they portray control, instruments, systems, navigation, they cannot convey the feel of being in an airplane;  and, especially with smaller aircraft, this is essential to a pilot.

But in either sim we have one great advantage over real life - in a car or airplane if you make a mistake you can die, on a computer you just reset and continue (something to consider when sim drivers note they have broken the record at some track).

Ultimately we are here to have fun, if heel-and-toe with h-shifters increases your fun that's great;  for me paddle shifters and left foot braking help compensate for input the sim cannot give me.

You didn't say anything that everybody doesn't know. However, you can do endless practice and have no fear when driving. That more than makes up for not having some of the feedback of a real car. You can also cheat by using LF braking and paddle shifters.

I'll stand by my statement that we have the choice of making GPL simulate as much as possible or find ways to make it easier and turn it into a game. Whatever makes you happy.

#20 jgf

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Posted Jan 11 2021 - 12:51 PM

"You didn't say anything that everybody doesn't know."

My apologies.




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