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1967 Sports Car Mod


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#61 Lee200

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Posted Nov 07 2010 - 10:47 AM

View PostM Needforspeed, on Nov 07 2010 - 10:36 AM, said:

  I am checking the complete Lola T 70 numbering entries ( not only for 1967, but for the following years and all the races, from WSC to obscures SCR) using John Starkey book on the Lola T 70, but at the moment there is no evidence of it.

   Maybe it was fitted later on lesser known British constructors sport cars, like the Nomad and the like.

Tomorrow's update will include notes on my chassis research.  I've tried to track down every chassis number used in 1967 and where it is now or even if it still exists.

There were five Lola chassis used and I can't account for two of them so I'd appreciate you taking a look.

#62 M Needforspeed

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Posted Nov 07 2010 - 11:02 AM

View PostLee200, on Nov 07 2010 - 10:21 AM, said:



  Early on, we were asked about including the Alfa and it certainly was  a pretty car, but we didn't have a good 3D model and it competed in the 2.0L prototype class.  
It there ever is a mod upgrade, then the Alfa would be at the top of the list.

  Lee

I forgot : if one day works begin on it,I' ll have blueprints and various side pics,as well as the dimentions.

#63 M Needforspeed

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Posted Nov 07 2010 - 11:04 AM

View PostLee200, on Nov 07 2010 - 10:47 AM, said:

View PostM Needforspeed, on Nov 07 2010 - 10:36 AM, said:

  I am checking the complete Lola T 70 numbering entries ( not only for 1967, but for the following years and all the races, from WSC to obscures SCR) using John Starkey book on the Lola T 70, but at the moment there is no evidence of it.

   Maybe it was fitted later on lesser known British constructors sport cars, like the Nomad and the like.

Tomorrow's update will include notes on my chassis research.  I've tried to track down every chassis number used in 1967 and where it is now or even if it still exists.

There were five Lola chassis used and I can't account for two of them so I'd appreciate you taking a look.
  Nice  to have done it ! It will add to the credential of the mod.What a long and consuming job !  

  What are those two chassis numbered Lolas cars ? I 'll search now, if you give me the info.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Nov 07 2010 - 11:07 AM.


#64 Lee200

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Posted Nov 07 2010 - 11:18 AM

Here is the info I have on the five Lolas:

SL73/101--Team Surtees car.  Currently owned by Ean Pugh in England.
SL73/102--Sid Taylor car.  Currently owned by Anders Hedborg in Sweden.
SL73/105--Mike de Udy car.  Purposely crashed during making of 1970 LeMans film.  Unknown status.
SL73/112--Jackie Epstein car that finished 4th at 1967 Spa.  Currently owned by Andre Bailly in France.
SL73/121--Team Surtees car.  Unknown status.

Edited by Lee200, Nov 07 2010 - 11:18 AM.


#65 M Needforspeed

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Posted Nov 07 2010 - 11:48 AM

View PostLee200, on Nov 07 2010 - 11:18 AM, said:

Here is the info I have on the five Lolas:

SL73/101--Team Surtees car.  Currently owned by Ean Pugh in England.
SL73/102--Sid Taylor car.  Currently owned by Anders Hedborg in Sweden.
SL73/105--Mike de Udy car.  Purposely crashed during making of 1970 LeMans film.  Unknown status.
SL73/112--Jackie Epstein car that finished 4th at 1967 Spa.  Currently owned by Andre Bailly in France.
SL73/121--Team Surtees car.  Unknown status.
  

SL73/ 121

sold in 1996 by Jean Guikas, a french owner who lives in Marseilles. Then gone to the USA .Badly crashed on 17/2/2001 on an historic race at Morose Park track.The suspenssion broke .very badly damaged.Only engine, gearbox, uprights salvageable. After 1995, the car was fitted with a 5 liters Aston Martin engine.Guikas was searching for it, to return to the original livery,as it was when he entered the Le Mans round.Starkey found this engine on a lot of 10 engines.

In Between, the car was sold in 1968 to Jackie Epstein by Eric Broadley.Then to Brian Bolton in South Africa.Then sold to an "englishman" who used it as a road car on british roads :thumbup: :blink: .After 1975, the owner stored it in the garage until it sold it to Jean Guikas.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Nov 07 2010 - 12:22 PM.


#66 M Needforspeed

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Posted Nov 07 2010 - 12:01 PM

Lee,

As a small present for your work... a pic.
3 others T 70 coupés were completed in 1967.The less known of them to date, was sent to Japan where he entered the 1967 Mount Fuji Gp of Japan (3/5/67), with Ginji Yasuda as driver.SL 73 /116 probably.Starkey has certainly corrected the mistake on his last opus, because the car was already in Japan at the beginning of May, and not on the 26/5/67.He was still for sale in Japan in 2000 .After ??

here at the start of the Japan GP race

Edited by M Needforspeed, Nov 07 2010 - 12:06 PM.


#67 M Needforspeed

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Posted Nov 07 2010 - 12:20 PM

SL 73 / 105

   The last infos Starkey got: it is under restoration by Peter Gerster, a German who own it since 1982.

Before Le Mans movie, the  car was already owned by a German, Edmond Dursch.After it has been used by Solar productions (certainly on loan)for the Le Mans movie,the bodywork was repaired.Then,Edmond  Dursch raced it in the Interseries races, in 1972 and 73 .Between 73 and 82, no infos on this chassis.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Nov 07 2010 - 12:30 PM.


#68 Chuck Curtis

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Posted Nov 07 2010 - 12:28 PM

View PostLee200, on Nov 07 2010 - 10:47 AM, said:

View PostM Needforspeed, on Nov 07 2010 - 10:36 AM, said:

  I am checking the complete Lola T 70 numbering entries ( not only for 1967, but for the following years and all the races, from WSC to obscures SCR) using John Starkey book on the Lola T 70, but at the moment there is no evidence of it.

   Maybe it was fitted later on lesser known British constructors sport cars, like the Nomad and the like.

Tomorrow's update will include notes on my chassis research.  I've tried to track down every chassis number used in 1967 and where it is now or even if it still exists.

There were five Lola chassis used and I can't account for two of them so I'd appreciate you taking a look.
Can these updates be added to the first post so they are all in one place?

Thanks
Chuck

#69 Lee200

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Posted Nov 07 2010 - 12:41 PM

Chuck, all these notes will be included with mod.

#70 Lee200

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Posted Nov 07 2010 - 12:44 PM

View PostM Needforspeed, on Nov 07 2010 - 12:20 PM, said:

SL 73 / 105

   The last infos Starkey got: it is under restoration by Peter Gerster, a German who own it since 1982.

Before Le Mans movie, the  car was already owned by a German, Edmond Dursch.After it has been used by Solar productions (certainly on loan)for the Le Mans movie,the bodywork was repaired.Then,Edmond  Dursch raced it in the Interseries races, in 1972 and 73 .Between 73 and 82, no infos on this chassis.

Thanks for new info.  I didn't have access to Starkey's book.

I"ll add this info to my notes.

It's amazing that even those chassis that were wrecked over the years have been recovered and are still around.  This applies to the Ferraris, Chapparals, and Fords too.

#71 M Needforspeed

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Posted Nov 07 2010 - 01:39 PM

I think that soon those pics will be uploaded somewhere else... Aerogi site, for instance.I remember during the RSC days, sharks looking for fresh blood were never far away..

Edited by M Needforspeed, Nov 07 2010 - 01:41 PM.


#72 nakazato

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Posted Nov 07 2010 - 02:45 PM

I would like to extend my deepest thanks and respect for all those involved in putting this thing together.

I've been involved with GPL since the winter of 1998, and over all the years that have passed (and especially now), it is extremely clear that the mod/development community for GPL is perhaps the most fervently dedicated and finest in the world.

You guys are awesome.

Keep up the phenomenal work!

#73 Bernd Nowak

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Posted Nov 08 2010 - 01:37 AM

View Postnakazato, on Nov 07 2010 - 02:45 PM, said:

I would like to extend my deepest thanks and respect for all those involved in putting this thing together.

I've been involved with GPL since the winter of 1998, and over all the years that have passed (and especially now), it is extremely clear that the mod/development community for GPL is perhaps the most fervently dedicated and finest in the world.

You guys are awesome.

Keep up the phenomenal work!

Not much to add to this. It's so great to see how much work they put into the mods with research and stuff to get the possible closest thing which is possible in GPL. If not most of them would have the same problems with some other sims I bet they would even let those shine. But better not. GPL has a much broader hardware base then some of the newer and I would hate to split the community.
I'll understand the people which want to take full use of the GPU/CPU and monitors but to me, having tested some of the other sims, GPL has a much more streamlined programming interface to start with. Track and graphics feel is something special while for sure made better by iRacing but we will never see historic cars on historic tracks and a championship which is spread around several so different cars like the BRM and Lotus.

So I can only thank to the whole team which will give us this mod and as a sidenote honor most of the others which had been on the creditlist :)

Great cars  :artist:

#74 Royale

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Posted Nov 08 2010 - 03:56 AM

And then we have what Nigel Roebuck (once Autosport; now Motorsport) said of Le Mans in 1967:


"...As for the 1967 race, all I can tell you is that my friend Jabby Crombac, who has seen virtually every Le Mans since the war, reckons that to have been the best ever. Virtually every world-class driver on earth was in that race, from F1, from Indy cars, even from NASCAR. It was essentially a fight between Ford and Ferrari, with such as Chaparral and Porsche also prominently involved. In the end, victory went to the Ford of Gurney and Foyt, at an average speed of over 135mph...

Consider the 'entry' that drew me to Le Mans in '67. Four factory-entered Ford Mk4s, driven by Gurney/Foyt, Bruce McLaren/Mark Donohue, Mario Andretti/Lucien Bianchi, Denny Hulme/Lloyd Ruby, plus three Mk2s, for Ronnie Bucknum/Paul Hawkins, Frank Gardner/Roger McCluskey, Jo Schlesser/Guy Ligier, and a GT40, for Brian Redman/Mike Salmon. There were two of the extraordinary Chaparral 2Fs, one of them driven by Phil Hill/Mike Spence, and a pair of Lola-Aston Martin T70s, one handled by by John Surtees/David Hobbs.

Deep breath... There were a couple of JW Automotive Mirages, for Jacky Ickx/Brian Muir and David Piper/Dick Thompson. Then we get on to the Ferraris, a trio of the gorgeous P4s, for Chris Amon/Nino Vaccarella, Mike Parkes/Lodovico Scarfiotti, Gunther Klass/Peter Sutcliffe, plus the Equipe Nationale Belge car of Willy Mairesse/'Beurlys', and the P3/4s of Richard Attwood/Piers Courage, Pedro Rodriguez/Giancarlo Baghetti, and Jean Guichet/Herbert Muller.

What next? Oh yes, the factory Porsches, crewed by Jo Siffert/Hans Hermann, Jochen Rindt/Gerhard Mitter, Rolf Stommelen/Jochen Neerpasch, and Vic Elford/Ben Pon. The works Matras were handled by Jean-Pierre Beltoise/Johnny Servoz-Gavin and Jean-Pierre Jaussaud/Henri Pescarolo, and the Alpine by Gerard Larrousse/Patrick Depailler..."

A fine time awaits us all  :clap2:

#75 Lee200

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Posted Nov 08 2010 - 05:54 AM

Yes, that was so cool that way back then, the Formula 1 drivers competed in the sports cars too.  At Brands Hatch, there were seven former or future F1 champion drivers in the field. :)

#76 Lee200

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Posted Nov 08 2010 - 05:58 AM

Many hours of research have gone into making the mod the most historically accurate and faithful mod ever produced for a racing simulation.  Here are some notes on each of the individual chassis that raced in 1967.  See M NeedForSpeed's new findings on the Lolas too posted previously.

Chassis Notes:
Lee Bowden

Ferrari:

The 1967 Ferrai factory team had four 330 P3/4 or P4s and the nonworks teams had four 412Ps.  Several sources refer to the 412Ps as being P3/4s, but these are incorrect as the factory always refered to these cars as 412Ps.  The only P3 that was converted to full P4 status was 0846.

1966 P3, 0846, was converted into a 1967 P3/4 spyder by shortening the frame and changing the engine. This was the only P3/4 ever built and was the test bed for the true P4s. This car won Daytona in 1967, but was partially destroyed at LeMans and thought lost.  James Glickenhaus reconstructed the car using the original frame although not all authorities agree that the frame came from 0846.  I have corresponded with Jim about the P4 specs.

0846 always raced as a spyder, but when originally rebuilt by Glickenhaus, it had a coupe body.  It has since been rebodied as a spyder.

There were only three true 1967 P4s ever built; 0856 which won Monza, 0858, and 0860.  All of these cars still exist.

0856 and 0858 were originally built and raced as coupes, but both were converted to spyders for Brands Hatch.  0856 is still bodied as a spyder and is the only completely original car left.

0858 and 0860 were converted to CanAm cars for the 1968 season.  0858 is still bodied as a CanAm car.  0860 was originally built as a spyder, was converted to a CanAm car, and its current body condition is unknown.  One source says it's still in CanAm configuration.

The factory cars were always painted red although 0856 had a yellow stripe at LeMans as it was loaned to the Ecurie Francochamps team.

These four cars all used the same 4.0L, V12 engine that featured two intake valves with fuel injection and produced 450 metric hp.

There were four 1967 412P coupes built which were used by the nonworks teams and looked almost identical to the P4 coupes. 0844 and 0848 were converted 1966 P3s. 0850 and 0854 were built from the ground up as 1967 412Ps.  The 412P differed mainly from the P4 by using a less powerful engine.  The 412P's 4.0L, V12 engine used only 1 intake valve with Weber carbs and produced 410 metric hp.

0844--North American Racing Team (USA).  Red at Daytona and Monza.  White with blue wheels at LeMans.  Currently owned by Harry Leventis and run by Tim Samways Sporting & Historic Cars Engineers Ltd. in the U.K.
0848--Scuderia Filipinetti (Switzerland).  Red with either a white top stripe or white top.
0850--Ecurie Francochamps (Belgium).  Yellow.
0854--Maranello Concessionaires (Great Britain).  Red with blue stripe and nose.  Currently owned by James Glickenhaus in the U.S. who also owns the P3/4 and a Ford GT40 MkIV.

Several years later, David Piper, who drove Ferraris at the 1967 Daytona and Brands Hatch races, built his own P4 spyder from scratch, 0900, using the original Ferrari blueprints with Enzo Ferrari's blessings.  One source says that 0900's body is the original spyder body from 0860.  Although generally considered to be a true P4, it never actually raced.  It is currently painted green.

All P4s and 412Ps are worth millions of dollars today; especially the P4s.  0856, being the only original P4, may well be the most priceless race car in existense.

Chaparral:

There were two 2Ds and two 2Fs built.  What is confusing is that all the 2Ds and 2Fs were originally 2A models and the first 2F was built from one of the 2Ds!

2D001 was built from 2A001 and won the Nurburgring in 1966.  It raced at Daytona and Sebring in 1967.  It remains the only original 2D and is in the Petroleum Museum in Midland, Texas.

2F001 was built from 2D002 which, in turn, had been built from 2A002.  2F001 won Brands Hatch in 1967.  Later, it was converted back to a 2A and is the only remaining 2A example.  It is in the museum also.

2F002 was built from 2A003 and still exists as the only remaining 2F.  It too is in the museum.

Mirage:

There were three M1s: M10001, M10002, and M10003.  Only one has survived.

M10001 is the only remaining original car.  Now owned by Don Williams of the Blackhawk Collection in Danville, CA and still painted in its Gulf Mirage colors; light blue with orange stripe.

M10002 was heavily wrecked in practice at the 1967 Nurburgring by Dr. Dick Thompson and written off.  It no longer exists.

M10003 won Spa in 1967, but was wrecked at Brands Hatch also by Dr. Dick Thompson.  It was converted into Ford GT-40 MkI, 1074, in the winter of 1967/68.  As a GT40, it won Monza in 1968 and was a camera car for Steve McQueen's LeMans film in 1970.  Now owned by Bernie Carl in Washington D.C.

Some sources have erroneously reported that M10003 became GT40 MkI, 1075, which is the most famous racing car Ford ever produced.  It is the only chassis that won LeMans twice; in 1968 and again in 1969.  However, other sources say that 1075 was built from the ground up as a MkI although it may have used some Mirage specifications and parts; perhaps even from M10002.  It is now owned by Rob Walton of Walmart and is still painted in its LeMans winning Gulf Ford colors; light blue with orange stripe.

Ford GT40 MkIIB:

All six 1967 MkIIBs were reengined 1966 MkIIs and all have survived.

1012--2nd at 1966 Daytona.  Extensively damaged during further testing at Daytona after the 1967 race.  Now restored and owned by Yves Saguato of Monaco.  Currently painted grey with two dark blue stripes.
1015--Won 1966 Daytona, 2nd at 1966 LeMans.  Restored and in the Shelby American Museum in Boulder, Colorado.  Currently painted in its 1966 LeMans colors; light blue with red front fenders.
1016--3rd at 1966 LeMans.  Restored and in a private collection.  Currently painted in its 1966 LeMans colors; gold with red nose.
1031/1047--3rd at 1966 Daytona, 2nd at 1967 Sebring, won 1967 Reims.  Restored and in a private collection in France.  Currently painted in its 1967 LeMans/Reims colors; light blue with black stripes.

For some reason in mid 1967, chassis 1031 and 1047 swapped ID plates.  At Sebring with Ford Motor Company, it raced as 1031, but at Reims with Ford France, it raced as 1047.  At LeMans, which was in between, no one is sure which chassis number it had as the #57 Bucknum/Hawkins Shelby American car.  Some authorities now call this chassis 1031/1047.

1046--Won 1966 LeMans.  Restored and in the Shelby American Museum in Boulder, Colorado although one source says it's recently been sold.  Currently painted in its 1966 LeMans colors; black with white stripes.
1047--Restored and in a private collection.  Probably raced at the 1967 LeMans as the #5 Gardner/McCluskey car, but no one is quite sure.

There is also a restored 1966 MkII, chassis XGT1, in yellow with black stripes in the Simeone Museum in Philadelphia, PA that is painted much like the MkIIB, 1012, that came in 7th at the 1967 Daytona race.  However, this is not the same chassis.

Apparently, the 1967 MkIIBs used two different cockpit layouts.  Ford entered so many cars that they contracted two companies to do the final build and preparation.  Shelby American MkIIBs used a cockpit that was almost identical to the MkI model.  However, the Holman and Moody version used an "aviation style" that was similar if not identical to the MkIV.

Ford GT40 MkIV:

There were five MkIVs and all have survived.

J4--Andretti/McLaren car that won Sebring.  Used in vintage racing by a private collector.  Still painted yellow with black stripes and #1.
J5--Gurney/Foyt car that won LeMans.  Now in the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan.  Still painted red and #1.
J6--McLaren/Donohue LeMans car.  Converted to a road car for a private collector (James Glickenhaus).  Still painted yellow with black stripes outlined in white and #2.
J7--Andretti/Bianchi LeMans car where it crashed and was extensively damaged.  Restored and in the Shelby American Museum in Boulder, Colorado.  Still painted dark brown/bronze and #3.
J8--Ruby/Hulme.  In the Simeone Museum in Philadelphia, PA.  Still painted blue and #4.

Lola T70 MkIII:

There were five Lolas and at least three have survived.

SL73/101--Team Surtees car.  Currently owned by Ean Pugh in England.
SL73/102--Sid Taylor car.  Currently owned by Anders Hedborg in Sweden.
SL73/105--Mike de Udy car.  Purposely crashed during making of 1970 LeMans film.  Unknown status.
SL73/112--Jackie Epstein car that finished 4th at 1967 Spa.  Currently owned by Andre Bailly in France.
SL73/121--Team Surtees car.  Unknown status.

Porsche 910:

Unlike other manufacturers, Porsche built new cars for each race and by the end of the 1967 had numberous 910s in either 2.0L or 2.2L configuration.  After the 1967 season, Porsche reengined all of the cars to 2.0Ls and sold them to private teams.  As so many were made, it's impossible to determine where each is today.

Ford GT40s MkI:

As with the Porsche 910s, there were numerous MkIs used by the nonworks teams so it is impossible to trace the status and location for each of them.  Ronnie Spain's "GT40: An Individual History and Race Record" is the best source available although it is now a bit dated.

Attached Files



#77 FloP

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Posted Nov 08 2010 - 07:11 AM

Do you know how many 910s and GT40 MkIs were built at the time?

#78 Lee200

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Posted Nov 08 2010 - 09:29 AM

View PostFloP, on Nov 08 2010 - 07:11 AM, said:

Do you know how many 910s and GT40 MkIs were built at the time?

Not exactly, but here is a good site for the Porsche chassis numbers.

http://wsrp.ic.cz/ch...orsche_910.html

#79 Runner

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Posted Nov 08 2010 - 09:38 AM

View PostFloP, on Nov 08 2010 - 07:11 AM, said:

Do you know how many 910s were built at the time?

Maybe 33 Porsche 910, including 4 Spyder

Here:

http://www.prova.de/...910/index.shtml

You can read this:

ChassisNumber type   engine     wheelbase length  weight  
01-12         Coupe  901/21     2300 mm   4113 mm 600 kg  
13-19         Coupe  771/0      2300 mm   4113 mm 600 kg  
20-21         Coupe LH 901/21   2300 mm   4600 mm 600 kg  
22-28         Coupe  771/0      2300 mm   4113 mm 620 kg  
30-34         Spyder  771/0     2300 mm   3860 mm 450 kg

Edited by Runner, Nov 08 2010 - 09:39 AM.


#80 Alain

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Posted Nov 08 2010 - 10:25 AM

VERY interesting Lee, thank you  :)




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