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Will Gpl Ever Go Vr?


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#1 JonnyA

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Posted Aug 19 2017 - 01:15 AM

I have been considering buying a bigger monitor, but part of me still hopes that someone will find a way to get GPL working in VR, either with Occulus Rift or some other equipment. Does anyone think or know if VR could be coming to GPL soon, or are we all going to be using monitors for years to come?

#2 Pedro

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Posted Aug 19 2017 - 12:56 PM

Finaly they will find a way to view everything in VR.

All is developing fast and still is in early stage.
Very expensive, so I wait and wait and wait, till I have enough mony to buy all i want.

Buy that bigger monitor Jonny, you wont regret it!

#3 JonnyA

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Posted Aug 19 2017 - 02:31 PM

Hmmm... moving from a 1920 x 1080 monitor to 2560 x 1080 will cost around £150 on eBay. May have to wait until Christmas!

#4 Millennium

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Posted Aug 20 2017 - 06:00 AM

There is support for TrackIR so I think there is a possiblity. Not sure on how the depth perception would work.

#5 JonnyA

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Posted Aug 20 2017 - 06:50 AM

Presumably with basic VR the content is displayed 'flat', as if you were standing at the centre of a spherical monitor? Must confess I don't know much about it.

#6 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 04 2017 - 07:48 AM

I'm also into combat flight sims and it seems everybody is going to VR. Correct me if i'm wrong. I'm blind in one eye. VR wouldn't work for me right? You need sight in both eyes to see 3D?

#7 Cookie

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Posted Sep 04 2017 - 01:51 PM

Yes Pete...

#8 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Sep 04 2017 - 01:58 PM

What's it look like if you close one eye?

#9 Michkov

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Posted Sep 04 2017 - 04:05 PM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Sep 04 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

I'm also into combat flight sims and it seems everybody is going to VR. Correct me if i'm wrong. I'm blind in one eye. VR wouldn't work for me right? You need sight in both eyes to see 3D?

As far as I know the VR goggles on the market today is in the most basic terms, two monitors 5-10 cm in front of your eyes. All the VR goggles are doing is tracking head movement and showing you the same feed with a slight offset. Any 3D effect you may experience is down to the grey matter in your skull not the device.So a VR device would still work but you'd have no depth perception because of the lack of second visual input.

#10 Fat Rich

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Posted Sep 06 2017 - 05:18 AM

Definitely 3D, they have lenses that focus your eyes to infinity so you don't get eyestrain. It's one screen but it's divided in half, one half for each eye. Showing the same scene but the viewpoint offset by a nosewidth.... just like real life therefore proper 3D.

For GPL, we'd need a rasterizer that renders the scene from 2 viewpoints, at 90 fps (goodbye AI) or you'll get motion sickness. Plus the code inserted into the game to do the head tracking. A lot of work :(

I recently got an Occulus Rift and it's a mixed bag. The resolution is pretty disappointing, but the feeling of immersion is great, the head tracking is fantastic and the 3D is cool. If you're short sighted it's a pain because the eyes are focussed to infinity so everything is blurred unless you wear glasses inside the rift.... which is OK once you're wearing it, but uncomfortable getting it on and off. It's quite light and comfortable otherwise, but gets a bit hot in warm weather.

My feeling is that it's the future of simracing... but a bit compromised at the moment. It's a huge improvement over a single screen allowing you to see apexes, exit points on hairpins, and cars racing alongside. But triple screens give you that but at a much higher resolution and therefore more clarity. I'm sure they'll release higher resolution headsets in the future, but even the most powerful PCs struggle to deliver the 90fps you need to not get motion sickness.

Edited by Fat Rich, Sep 06 2017 - 05:25 AM.


#11 Fat Rich

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Posted Sep 06 2017 - 05:23 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Sep 04 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

I'm also into combat flight sims and it seems everybody is going to VR. Correct me if i'm wrong. I'm blind in one eye. VR wouldn't work for me right? You need sight in both eyes to see 3D?

You'd be able to use it, but you wouldn't get the 3D effect.... you might be better off spending your money on triple screens instead (which already works with GPL)

Edit: Given this some more thought, you'd get the benefits of head tracking....  for example if you can't see one of the your dials because the steering wheel is in the way, you'll be able to move your head to see around it like you can in real life.... it changes the viewpoint based on where your head is. It doesn't just pan a flat 2D image around like TrackIR for example. But not a huge benefit though, I guess :)

Edited by Fat Rich, Sep 06 2017 - 06:58 AM.


#12 JonnyA

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Posted Sep 06 2017 - 05:58 AM

Thanks for the information Rich. As you say, VR is the future of sim racing, and if we want to future-proof GPL, to keep new drivers coming to it and keep the community alive, we need to encourage ways to make it happen.

#13 John Woods

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Posted Sep 06 2017 - 07:23 AM

Some GPL tracks, and those of other sims as well, might not play so well when you can see everywhere.
Not that it would stop me if I got the chance.


:D

#14 Fat Rich

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Posted Sep 06 2017 - 10:28 AM

View PostJohn Woods, on Sep 06 2017 - 07:23 AM, said:

Some GPL tracks, and those of other sims as well, might not play so well when you can see everywhere.
Not that it would stop me if I got the chance.


:D

Tracks would mostly be OK I reckon, but the car cockpits and the driver's arms might not look so good....and in VR they become YOUR arms, it's quite spooky! Also, as far as I know GPL uses a flat square (2 polys with a transparent mip) for a steering wheel as opposed to a fully 3D modelled wheel in later sims. The cockpits in modern sims look fantastic and are very detailed.

One advantage of the Rift versus triple screens is that there is a much greater vertical field of vision in VR, which would bring the mirrors in the GT mods back into view :)

Edited by Fat Rich, Sep 06 2017 - 10:30 AM.


#15 one2fwee

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Posted Sep 06 2017 - 06:38 PM

This isn't really related to VR but doesn't GPL render in a weird way so that if you turn around and drive the wrong way the track doesn't render properly and it looks rather weird and crappy with the draw distance and lods and clipping and stuff.
I can imagine it not looking great if you try to look behind yourself in VR due to that.

What causes that?

#16 John Woods

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Posted Sep 22 2017 - 09:59 AM

An expeditious engineering imperative in the interest of meeting a publishing deadline?

Plus no thought Grand Prix Legends would ever go VR, or even that there would ever be VR?

A limited number of cameras and limited experience plus novice awareness of potential capabilities?

A virtual environment that is really most similar to live theater facing an audience?

You could say its because of an assumed driver POV, but there are other cameras and look left/right, track IR...
So maybe its diligence of the track creators and limits of hardware?

If that is the case VR for Grand Prix Legends is a matter of interest?

My very very limited experience with track creation confirmed it is some substantial and difficult effort to fine tune driver view and replay cams to perfection. A VR environment would surely be much more of a challenge.

Edited by John Woods, Sep 22 2017 - 10:05 AM.


#17 isamu

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Posted Sep 26 2017 - 09:51 PM

View PostJonnyA, on Aug 19 2017 - 01:15 AM, said:

Does anyone think or know if VR could be coming to GPL soon?

God I hope so. Iracing, PCars and AC has spoiled me. Especially now that more historic content is being released for AC and Pcars 2.

#18 AbidingDude

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Posted Sep 03 2018 - 07:15 AM

VR is possible in GPL.
I don' see a previous post on this method so I am adding it here.  Apologies if this is already common knowledge.

Disclaimers:
1.  Please understand that I just discovered this and am just posting so that others with an interest can explore.
2.  I have not tried detailed configuration changes, just documenting that it works, after a fashion.
3.  I would not recommend that others invest in VR until some in the community who already have a Rift or Vive try this.
4.  The method that worked for me costs an extra USD$40 in software.  However, the software (vorpX) works for a number of other legacy games (GTR2, GTL, etc.) and therefore for me it was worth the investment.  Plus kind of fun.  However, your mileage may vary.

How I did it:
1.  I am using Oculus Rift; it should also work with HTC Vive.
2.  I purchased, downloaded and installed the software vorpX (http://www.vorpx.com/).  It is USD$39.99.  I don't know of a free solution atm.
3.  I created a vorpX Cloud Profile in the vorpX Configuration menu, then searched for and downloaded (imported) the vorpX DOOM profile by SorryAboutYourCats.  My understanding is that this profile works with OpenGL games, which is why I chose to try it with GPL.  Other profiles might work but this is the one that I used.
4.  I have uploaded a draft GPL profile (by abidingdude) to vorpX based on SAYC's DOOM profile (credit given), so you might be able to use that one instead of the DOOM profile.
5.  If you use the DOOM profile, you can create a new profile and rename it "GPL" or something different (that is what I did).
6.  Make sure the vorpX profile you choose to use is linked (assigned) to the gpl EXEs that you use (e.g., gpl.exe native, or gplc67.exe through GEM+).  I have done this for at least some of the GEM+-specific exe's.  If the exe is missing you will get an error message when you try to start the game with vorpX running in the background and will have to go back and add it.
7.  Make sure vorpX is running in the background when you start GPL.
8.  Start GPL as you usually do, put on your VR headset, and drive in VR!

Note that, at least the way I have it set up, there is no head tracking until you get to the track, so on startup the corners of menus are difficult to see/select.  Also, head tracking in game seems to function a bit oddly compared to how it does with the Rift in other driving sims (AC, RF2, R3E, pCARS2) and with GPL using TrackIR -- I assume that these issues can be addressed with configuration edits, but have not tried to do so yet.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Edited by AbidingDude, Sep 03 2018 - 07:15 AM.


#19 Lee200

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Posted Sep 03 2018 - 12:32 PM

That really is great news and thanks for posting your experience with Oculus Rift.

The high price of today's VR headsets is probably what is keeping most of us away from them.  The current Oculus Rift is $400 U.S. which is pretty steep, but apparently it works OK for several other racing sims such as AC.

That's good news that the vorpX software can support OGL with GPL.  Cool.  :)

Have you been able to compare GPL in VR to other sims such as AC, rFactor2, .etc?

Edited by Lee200, Sep 03 2018 - 12:33 PM.


#20 AbidingDude

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Posted Sep 04 2018 - 10:12 AM

I hear you about the cost of VR headsets.
At this point I would not buy an Rift or Vive just for GPL.
The experience is still a bit "tweaky" and not as good as in sims with VR baked in.
It is still fun though after nearly two decades of playing GPL, to be "inside" the sim (in the way that VR is good at) for the first time.

A couple of additional points (still playing with the vorpX settings):
1.  The middle mouse button is your friend.  It toggles the screen size - shrinking it away from you when you are in the menus so that you can get to the green button in the right lower corner easily, then going back to full screen to drive in-game.
2.  Del button brings up in-game menu.  Still exploring the settings, but you can zoom the screen in and out to minimize the letterbox effect.
3.  Can't get car mirrors to work in VR - will have to explore if changing rendering in the rasterizer has any effect on this.




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