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F2 Objects In Mirrors


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#1 G.Spinning

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Posted Jan 28 2012 - 03:19 AM

Hi Remy and F2 mod team,

I would like to ask whether you or someone in the mod team has already prepared, or has the intention to prepare, “mirrors with objects in”, as other mods have.  If not, I am enjoying making the mirror views. I have already done the mips with the transparencies for half of the cars and soon I will complete the full set. I think the effect is quite nice.  :artist:

However, only one car, the lola-bmw, has equal right and left sides, thus only one mip (here attached for trial in car folder coventry), is called for the mirrors in the car 3do.  All the others need to modify the car 3do to call two distinguished left and right mirror mips. While I am able to prepare the mips, I am not yet able to change the 3do to add the second mip, as in other mods (e.g. 66 and 69X) few asymmetrical cars have implemented. :shrug:

Would it be possible for you, or for someone who knows, to explain me step by step how to modify the 3do or, if I will not manage, to take over the task of preparing the 3do and I will supply the mips.

The attached pictures have been done applying each new mirror mip at the time and then cutting and pasting to have both in the same jpeg.

Looking forward to get a reply. :wave:
Gianfranco
-----------------------------------------------------------
:new2: Edited on 5 february 2012

And here they are, 22 F2 mirrors (including trasparancy) with objects. In my opinion they add a lot of realism to the player rear view in the car, but note that it is only an image, so the suspension and the wheels will not  move  :P . For ten out of 12 cars, left and right mirrors have different images.  This has required to modify the original cars 3do. Many thanks to Nes to have provided me with initial modified 3do.

Please note that this mirror add-on works in conjunction with my other add-ons  on new suits, faces and helmets for F2 mod v1.  Without those, the new 3do will miss some files. That is way I have compiled a mirror and suits all in one add-on for F2 mod v1  (this includes also the needed new suit for Raby, new gloves for Mclaren and a slightly darker blue helmet for Ickx).

Credits as usual to be shared among all the GPL community for sharing so much knowledge to keep GPL to a high standard.

Have fun,

G.Spinning :wave:

Attached Thumbnails

  • fer.jpg
  • l48.jpg
  • GS_F2 mirrors with objects_v1.JPG
  • ms7.jpg
  • pro.jpg

Attached Files


Edited by G.Spinning, Feb 05 2012 - 06:12 AM.


#2 Paddy the Irishman

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Posted Jan 28 2012 - 03:40 AM

I can't help with the technical stuff, but just have to say wht a wonderful effect.

Thanks Gianfranco  :thumbup:

#3 sky

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Posted Jan 28 2012 - 04:27 AM

hi gianfranco,
i haven't checked the cars makeup yet, but here are some useful links:

via gpllinks you will find the link to the wonderful gpl ++ addons page. stefan has put up a lot of useful tutorials there. amongs others one to show you how to add two textures where there used to be one - shown using the example of a dashboard split in half for higher res. that is one step you'll need.

as said i haven't looked into the cars yet, but let's assume you will find the default mirror .3do (used on both sides of the car) is called mirror.3do and the .mip to go with it is mirror.mip. what i would propose is copying the mirror .3do file and name it mirror2.3do or something. then you will have to edit that .3do (see tutorial linked above) to change the name of the mipfile linked in there from mirror.mip to mirror2.mip and save it. now you can save the mirror graphic with the exhaust (or whichever side you decide is the "2" one) and save it as mirror2.mip. so with that you have basically done the simple steps. now would be a good time to try if the mirror2.3do actually works.
temporarily renamed the still used mirror.3do to mirror_temp.3do and rename or copy mirror2.3do to mirror.3do and test the game. you should now see the mirror on both sides of the car showing the exhaust. aha. so that works (if it's could not load track or something, you have to go back to the .3do string editing bit because something might be missing. if it shows ok, now comes the harder part (point of view really ;)).
now edit the basic car .3do and check for the references to the mirror. i haven't tried that myself yet (i think), but you way may need to do is find the left and right mirrors in the model and check how they are referenced there - it should point to an external file (said mirror.3do). this should be true for both sides. so you need to add a new reference string to mirror2 and change the reference for one mirror from mirror.3do to mirror2.3do so that the 2nd mirror is called as well. save that and test again.

this is a very sketchy tutorial and i'm by no means a champ at .3do editing (rather not actually) plus i haven't tried doing that. but it should be pretty much like that. for an accurate description, wait for martin to step in here. he knows the .3do stuff that i keep pushing away - claiming to be the simpleton artist and all :huh: ;)

however i think you should find all the necessary know-how at gpl++. oh. if the mirrors are NOT in external .3dos then you may actually be lucky and only need to add a string to the mip and edit the texture used for the polygons of one of the mirrors.

#4 nes

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Posted Jan 28 2012 - 05:36 AM

** Make backup files allways
Lotus example:
- Extract “lotus.3do” with DooDAT in lotus folder
- Open main “lotus.3do” with RaceCon.
- In RaceCon “Menu” select  > View > 3D
- Doubleclick “Root”
- Go to >  + cockpit
Now you must look for “lrm.mip”. You must found 2 files, one for left mirror, one for right mirror. Rename one to differentiate both.(be sure your new “lrm.mip” and “lrm2.mip” are into lotus folder).
- If you select  one and other you can see the changes now.
- Close RaceCon. It ask to update “lotus.3do” file. ** Yes.
- Test it.

"lrm.mip" is the file in Lotus as you know (each car have its own name files)
"mirror.mip" Is the real mirror file that you found out of cars folders, normaly into "cars67". all cars use the same file.

Attached Thumbnails

  • racecon1.jpg


#5 MECH

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Posted Jan 28 2012 - 06:05 AM

I've send him a new coventry.3do which uses a 2nd mip.
So he should be able to work it out ;)

#6 G.Spinning

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Posted Jan 28 2012 - 07:57 AM

Thank you guys.
I will try Nes procedure asap. It should make the job, otherwise I will come back asking. Mech, your coventry.3do is OK, I tried it with my left and right mips. This is what I have to do for all the other car. I will let you know. :D

#7 tooncheesef1

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Posted Jan 28 2012 - 09:04 AM

Does the Ferrari not have symmetrical objects in mirrors? It had a Vee engine so it should do.

#8 FloP

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Posted Jan 28 2012 - 10:11 AM

Excellent project, thanks guys! :thumbup:

#9 G.Spinning

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Posted Jan 28 2012 - 11:23 AM

BINGO!!! It works. :thumbup:  

I followed Nes procedure and created a second lrm.mip for the lotus in a couple of minutes. Then I started to do the same for the brm. But I spent about 1 hour to localize the equivalent bim.mip and make it left. Is there a fast way in RaceCon to find mips when you do not know a priori the ID number, rather than to open all the nodes and try until you find your treasure?

BTW, I am happy for today: I succeeded in modifying two cars 3do to have different left and right mirrors.  :D

P.S.: Tooncheesef1, you are right the ferrari is symmetrical: 1 less 3do to change and 1 mip less to do.

#10 nes

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Posted Jan 28 2012 - 11:55 AM

:thumbup:  Nice G.S

View PostG.Spinning, on Jan 28 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

. . . Is there a fast way in RaceCon to find mips when you do not know a priori the ID number, rather than to open all the nodes and try until you find your treasure?

No, but when you know the structure of cars, all is the same. So you can go more fast to found the file.

Give me one hour and I upload the *.3do F2 cars.

#11 MECH

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Posted Jan 28 2012 - 12:06 PM

Well actually you can if you use GPLTrackeditor.
The tree is much easier to read then with racecon ;)

#12 nes

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Posted Jan 28 2012 - 01:15 PM

Hi again G.S

This are the F2.3do cars with 2 diferent mirrors mips.
But:
- I not tested any one :idunno:
- Text file give you the name you need to use. Always the "original.mip" and "original2.mip"
- strange things. Some cars use the same name. (I think is not problem)
- Ferrari is not there. I can´t open with RaceCon.(I gonna try other way)

Test all,

thx.

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#13 G.Spinning

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Posted Jan 28 2012 - 01:49 PM

View Postnes, on Jan 28 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

Hi again G.S

This are the F2.3do cars with 2 diferent mirrors mips.
But:
- I not tested any one :idunno:
- Text file give you the name you need to use. Always the "original.mip" and "original2.mip"
- strange things. Some cars use the same name. (I think is not problem)
- Ferrari is not there. I can´t open with RaceCon.(I gonna try other way)

Test all,

thx.
Thanks Nes,

this will save me some time, but I am very happy that you explained me also the way how to do it. I will test them and change some names as needed, since each car will have its specific mirrors, but I know how to do it. When ready with all cars, I will release this mirrors addon with 3dos and mips.

Ciao a tutti, :wave:

G.S.

#14 ginetto

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Posted Jan 28 2012 - 03:03 PM

Gianfranco nice work and enthusiasm :thumbup:  

Are you Italian?
Are you willing to join us on the editing side of the forum? :)

#15 G.Spinning

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Posted Jan 29 2012 - 04:24 AM

View PostGinetto, on Jan 28 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Gianfranco nice work and enthusiasm :thumbup:  

Are you Italian?
Proudly, on any track. Especially on yours. ;)

View PostGinetto, on Jan 28 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Are you willing to join us on the editing side of the forum? :)

I would like very much to provide my modest contribute in a more structured way to keep our beloved GPL to the highest possible standard and learn from all of you. :D  

Gianfranco

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#16 delgs

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Posted Jan 30 2012 - 03:51 AM

Hi Gianfranco,

Thanks for the objects in mirrors for the F2 cars, I'm looking forward to it, looks very good so far. And thank you for all your other recent contributions of historically-correct helmets, driver suits etc. They're a real enhancement to the game!  :hat-tip:

Just one thing about the mirrors: the current rims look a bit too thick to my eyes, and seem to be missing the white plastic seal between the rim and the glass that this type of mirror usually had. I've never seen any "bullet" mirrors with just a thick alloy rim and no seal visible. Somewhere I've got a pair of original racing mirrors made by Alexander, dating from 1964, and they have the white plastic seal. The modern repros have it too. Two pics of a Formula 2 Bt 23 cockpit below, hopefully you can just make out the white seals between rim and glass, and the overall proportions of the rim.

Actually, I feel bad about mentioning this, ( making extra work for you, when you're already doing a brilliant job!) and its a really minor thing, but I'm sure you'd want to get the detail right, if time allows. Either way, you're doing fantastic work, and its much appreciated, thank you again! :thumbup:

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  • img_0697.jpg


#17 sky

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Posted Jan 30 2012 - 04:46 AM

delgs, are you sure there is a seal around it? in my (limited) experience the mirrors had a bit of a gap between the mirror area and the housing in order to be able to tilt the mirror. but i can't say i've seen a seal there. also with the car pictured you see extra buttons on the wheel - those could all be later additions, so the mirror may not be original parts either... just sayin ;)

that is btw a constant source of frustration when trying to recreate old racecars. you get some many bits and pieces of junk added to the cars over time, some because of the new owners, some because of fia safety regulations (rollbars & hoops)...

#18 delgs

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Posted Jan 30 2012 - 09:33 AM

The mirrors are adjusted by rotating the whole head, which is eccentrically shaped, so that rotation tilts the glass to different angles. I'm away from home for a while, if I were'nt, I'd upload some pics of my sixties originals. The two big manufacturers back then were Walprest and Alexander, mine are the latter, and typical of what was fitted to racers in the 60's. Mine originally came from Rudds of Worthing.( Do a quick google on Ken Rudd and Ruddspeed, if you're interested ) However, the repros are the same, you can clearly see the seal in the pics below. The main difference between modern repros and originals is that the originals were much lighter in construction, and either polished alloy, or very thinly electro-plated.  The type you may be thinking of are the Raydyot mirrors (2nd pic from the right), which were of a different construction, rather than the rotate-to adjust type commonly seen on mid to late sixties single-seaters. Raydyots were much more commonly seen on 50's sports racers, and not seen so often seen in the sixties. As you say, Sky, very difficult to find good cockpit shots of cars in period, but it should be obvious from any external shot (that shows the mirrors) which type of mirror was in use. See the period shot of the Bt 23 below. These two types were really the only patterns of mirrors in use on Formula cars of the period that I'm aware of, other than the Monza/ Mach III style used by some of the Ferraris, which were of a totally different shape anyway, being trapezoidal.

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_0980.jpg
  • GTKT422A_1.jpg
  • alloyraydotpair.jpg
  • 1017401.jpg

Edited by delgs, Jan 30 2012 - 09:44 AM.


#19 sky

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Posted Jan 30 2012 - 12:04 PM

convincing arguments :). was that seal as seen in the first pic detachable or could it get lost? i guess it was just pressed into the gap, right? maybe with a little wedge to go behind the actual mirror to keep it in place?

that would have me redo the '69 mirror on the fez. grmbl. i'll think i'll stick with the "whoopsie, seal got lost" cover story there :idunno:

oh and ken rudd rings a bell. a faint one, but still.

#20 delgs

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Posted Jan 30 2012 - 01:14 PM

AFIK, the seal is'nt detachable. Its made of fairly hard plastic, and the glass sits in a channel moulded into it, and the alloy of the rim is pressed over it. I think you'd probably struggle to get the seal out without breaking the glass, but its not always the tightest fit, and the glass can rattle a little. The plastic sealing ring is all that holds the glass into the mirror. I don't know about the 69 fez mirrors, though, probably very different. I'd always thought that they were the sebring type, but yeah, still with the seal round the edge of the glass. And who knows, maybe they frequently fell out on the 69 ferraris, what with all the bumps and vibration!  :lol: :D

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