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Banded Skies


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#1 kunc

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Posted Dec 16 2015 - 02:03 PM

I've applied Thomas Laechele's updates, and at least a few have what I'll call "banded" skies.  In other words, instead of even gradients from lighter to darker blues, there are distinct color bands. His Silverstone update is one example.

Thomas is credited with the horizon textures in the the Spa '67 track, but the skies in that track are fine.  In fact, I see this in no other tracks or track updates other than those from Thomas.

I recall having a similar problem with an NVidia graphics card years ago, but the banding was on everything.  I just purchased an ATI card and went on my merry way.  My next computer had an NVidia card, but the problem didn't surface again, perhaps due to the new rasterizers or updated video-card drivers.

The FAQ mentions "lines in the sky" when using OpenGL with the solution being to "Disable conformant texture clamp" in the graphics card settings.  This is followed later by Cylex providing the following statement "Unfortunately in latest versions of ForceWare there is not an option Disable conformant texture clamp".  And I can attest that the option doesn't exist for me either.

I extracted the .mip files from both silverstone and spa67, and they have identical properties (1024 x 1024, 16 bit, SubType 3).  Incidently, the banding is visible when viewing the mip (and mip converted to .bmp) in other programs (mip explorer, ms paint).

Also, the bands are visible both in Open GL V2 and Direct 3D V2 (I prefer Open GL).

I've not seen anyone else comment with this issue and Laechele's updates.  Is it just me?  Is there a way to correct it?

Thanks

Windows XP
NVidia GeForce GTX470
Monitor 1920 x 1080 32 bit color
GPL Detail Setting at 99%
GPL runs great exept for this one issue

Edited by kunc, Dec 19 2015 - 01:42 PM.


#2 John Woods

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Posted Dec 16 2015 - 05:17 PM

Definitely noted the issue, but had not connected it to TL.

#3 Bo Bruce

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Posted Dec 17 2015 - 10:26 AM

same  problem here... almost exact same system spec's.. my video card is nvidea GeForce 430
i received word from Ginetto on HOW to fix it.. but its beyond my capabilities.

Quote

To get rid of those lines there are 2 way.
First is to use a type 7 horizon which uses 32 bits instead of 16 of the "regular" type 3
The second way, if you cannot transform the mips into 32 bits, is to convert the mips in BMP then pass them trough paint shop pro ( an old v. 7 is good for that, you can find it on the net searching for old software) and reduce their colors to 256 using diether method then go back to 16mil.. Save and the sky will not have those strips anymore.
I suggest to try a few settings with only one mip and see which gives the best result then proceed with the rest of them


#4 kunc

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Posted Dec 17 2015 - 12:21 PM

Okay, I have Paint Shop Pro v7.  I loaded a horiz3.bmp (converted from horiz3.mip).  I chose Color/Decrease Color Depth - 256 Colors

The dialog box offers a variety of Palette choices, and Reduction Methods. "Ordered Dither" is one Reduction Method available, but only with a "Standard/Web-safe" Palette.

I tried that option, but the while getting rid of the color bands, it yielded a purple sky along with other unacceptable changes.

That's about how far I can take it without more specific guidance.

Reading the Paint Shop Pro manual, it sounds like the bands were introduced when the color palette was upped to a 32 bit color file.

Edited by kunc, Dec 17 2015 - 01:08 PM.


#5 TvO

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Posted Dec 17 2015 - 03:35 PM

Try blurring the sky :)

#6 MECH

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Posted Dec 17 2015 - 04:45 PM

Or use heavy fog, duct tape, tipex, paint, ketchup,..

#7 kunc

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Posted Dec 18 2015 - 07:33 AM

"Try blurring the sky"

The horizon mip files include buildings, trees, and clouds that become blurred too.  And you could still see the banding in the sky.

"Or use heavy fog, duct tape, tipex, paint, ketchup,.."

I guess I could use the GPL Fog Tool, but that's not the result I'm after.  Don't think the others will work :)

I've sent an e-mail to Thomas Laechele ... maybe he'll respond.

Edited by kunc, Dec 18 2015 - 07:48 AM.


#8 John Woods

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Posted Dec 18 2015 - 08:46 AM

Thinking WinMip2B16 could convert from Type 3 to 7, but found no option except 3,4,5...no 7.
Is there some other tool that would do this?

This happens on my Watkins Glen, not a TL enhanced track, so its not just his tracks.

#9 Remy

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Posted Dec 18 2015 - 09:06 AM

View PostJohn Woods, on Dec 18 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

Is there some other tool that would do this?

yes

http://srmz.net/inde...t=15#entry45639

#10 John Woods

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Posted Dec 18 2015 - 09:14 AM

View PostRemy, on Dec 18 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

View PostJohn Woods, on Dec 18 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

Is there some other tool that would do this?

yes

http://srmz.net/inde...t=15#entry45639

Thanks Remy. Got it.

#11 Bob Simpson

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Posted Dec 18 2015 - 03:02 PM

I thought that it was either a Graphics card setting or simply using the V2 rasterizers that cured this.

#12 Robert Fleurke

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Posted Dec 18 2015 - 03:50 PM

Since using this system, with an ATI card, suffering from this banding problem at many tracks. Using  OpenGL V2. There must be a more simple solution than to edit the skies for each track...

Have tried all sort of Catalyst settings up to max detail, no change...

#13 Bob Simpson

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Posted Dec 18 2015 - 04:24 PM

Ah, I see what you're talking about.  I never tried that update and I wonder why Lachele would make it if it appeared banded.  I use an nVidia GTX760, OpenGLv2

The sky doesn't look banded in his screenshots.  Hmmm.

Edited by Bob Simpson, Dec 18 2015 - 04:25 PM.


#14 kunc

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Posted Dec 18 2015 - 06:07 PM

I am using Open GL V2, and have tried Direct 3D V2.  The bands are visible in both.  The problem only presents itself (to me) with Thomas Lachael's updates.
I tried working through Jack Seller's directions here: http://srmz.net/inde...opic=2992&st=30 as it sounds like he's talking about the banding.
But I had no luck ... perhaps I'm not starting with the correct file type.

#15 Ramoats

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Posted Oct 05 2019 - 09:01 AM

Hello Folks .... I have gone through this thread pretty thoroughly and tried the recommended techniques to no avail to remove the banding in my Silverstone sky that came with the Lachelle update. Jack sellers looks great except the horizon seems to high and lush for the country surrounding Silverstone.  I tried to find the old Jack Healy skies but they seem long gone. Are there any alternative sky's available for Silverstone I haven't found yet anyone could point me to ?

Thanks .....

#16 gliebzeit

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Posted Oct 05 2019 - 09:10 AM

Give this set of horizon/sky files, from Thomas, a try in your Silverstone track folder.

Files removed

Edited by gliebzeit, Oct 05 2019 - 09:23 AM.


#17 Ramoats

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Posted Oct 05 2019 - 09:22 AM

View Postgliebzeit, on Oct 05 2019 - 09:10 AM, said:

Give this set of horizon/sky files, from Thomas, a try in your Silverstone track folder.

Attachment silver_Thomas_horizon-sky.rar

Thanks for that ... unfortunately thats the sky I am already using only I removed the specular highlights around the sun .... maybe I should post a screenshot ....

#18 Ramoats

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Posted Oct 05 2019 - 09:27 AM

Here is the banding I speak of ....... To be clear .. my Silverstone is the GPL Today 1.0 update with Lachelles update over it as specified in his readme. I removed the specular highlights around the sun sometime back and posted the files for anyone who  wanted them ...

Attached Files


Edited by Ramoats, Oct 05 2019 - 09:38 AM.


#19 paul skingley

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Posted Oct 05 2019 - 09:45 AM

This problem is due to the way bmps are converted to Type 3 mips end up being 16 bit

If you are using v2 rasters you can use Type 7 mips for the horizon/sky which do not have the banding because they are 32 bit.

Some of the newer tracks now come with Type 7 horizon/sky option.

If you use Type 7 make sure 32 bit is active In your core.ini

[RasterV2]
32Bit= 1

I converted Thomas's Silverstone sky to Type 7. Without the the original artwork I had to work from bmps converted from Thomas's mips which had banding. The result is not perfect but better.
You can give it a try and see if it helps.


BACK UP BEFORE INSTALL ;)

Paul

Attached Files


Edited by paul skingley, Oct 05 2019 - 01:31 PM.


#20 gliebzeit

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Posted Oct 05 2019 - 11:51 AM

Thank you, Paul.  Your conversion looks much better than the original type3 mips.  :)




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