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The Holy Grail Of Setup Optimizing.


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#1 BrunoB

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Posted Jan 23 2010 - 10:05 AM

Of course I know that there is probably not ONE Holy Grail conserning this issue, but:-)
But Im rather excited because after more than 10 years of messing with a lot of different virtual racing sims, I have reached some kind of personal setup breakthrougt. Isnt the english word revelation? :-)

This breakthrougt is connected to my publicised manual "BrunoBs new approach to racing setup".
Because after a lot of positive (and some offended negative) feedback I decided to take my own medicine rather to the extreme.
I took my best setup for the NR2003 GTP mod (Sauber/Mercedes) and used the evolutionary method in the "BrunoBs new approach.." to try to optimize the setup even further.
I have to say that this setup was the best behaving (neutral drifting) and most grippy setup I have until now produced seen in the context that the downforce should allow very high topspeed.

The only problem with the setup was the wellknown that when the car was driven into a corner with too much speed then the behaviour of the car suddenly snapped from wellbehaved neutral to extreme oversteer. When this happened the car was impossible to save and would 99% sure make a kind of donut where the rearend tried to play foreend.
I call this problem wellknown because to the best of my knowledge EVERY racing sim has this problem.
And as a sidecomment its because of this that I hate ISI sims.
Because they are by far the worst (IMO) to make it impossible to save a slide/drift.
Just google the words "rfactor drifting issue" if you dissagree.
But it is further because of this that I like the 2 Papyrus sims best(GPL/NR2003).
Because they do manage this general sim problem to a certain degree (again IMO). But still not perfect.

OK. Eventhough my best setup NORMALLY behaved neutral, then I decided to re-evaluate the setup from its behaviour in the above example.
Ie as OVERsteering.
Because then I could use the evo method to....

---To Be Continued When I Have Finished The Article:-)

#2 BrunoB

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Posted Jan 25 2010 - 03:45 AM

Continued:
---Part II----The Holy Grail: Drifting Heaven-----

....make the setup UNDERsteering.

Too my surprice this was pretty easy. Probably mainly because I until now had NOT been interrested in uptimizing this setup in the UNDERsteering direction.
But using the simple evo method I did realize that there was a lot of extra grip hiding in the REAR settings.

I dont want to get too much into precisely which settings:-)
Because if GTP ever get an online renaissance then I hope to have something up in the sleve:-). Can you hear me iRacing;-)

But I can reveal that much that a few (but urgent!) of the GTP "help balloons" (when the mouse hoover above a setup value) are plain wrong!
Thats probably because they are taken directly from the orig NR2003 help balloons without having been "translated" according to the quite different GTP enviroment and car behaviour.
I will only vaguely point you in the direction by saying that some of the crucial NR2003 advices are PRECISELY the opposite of the truth conserning GTP setups!

But to make this explanation a bit shorter:-) then I ended up with a car that is incredible stable EVEN WHEN YOU GET INTO A CORNER TOO FAST!!
So maybe the headline for this post should be Drifting Heaven:-)
Because with this new evo re-optimized setup the GTP cars have to be treated more like special japanese "drifting cars".
At least if you really want to exploit the grip hiding in the setup.

The reason for this driving behaviour is that these special setups are extremely UNDERsteering. Extremely!
And if you want to get an UNDERsteering car fast round a corner then you HAVE to initiate some drifting just at the entrance of the corner.
Or else you would not be able to get the front of the car into the corners apex.
Succeding in this you can often give nearly full throttle shortly after the apex because its so easy balancing the drifting. No donots. But a lot of drift, speed and screaming. And new excitement to an old mod:-)
Actually the GTP cars behaviour now is a bit closer to rally car cornering!
Without the rally use of the handbrake;-)

As a kind of spinoff from this "exploiting of UNDERsteering" I have been able to even further lower the spoiler/rearwing.
Much more than was further manageable (for me:-)
At the moment Im hotlapping on the incredible challenging track "3_forty_9 townie" from Windy City Racing Tracks.
http://home.comcast....y66/tracks.htm. (Thank you guys).
And without any cheating with gripvalues or whatever (only using BrunoB GTP AI-Hacks v.1.1) I have managed to get down to a laptime of 1.21.114 with a spoiler setting af 33 (Sauber).
Furthermore Im ofcourse NOT using any of the socalled "direct shifting" advantages which automatically gives you extra seconds.

Without bragging I will challenge anyone to drive a whole lap round this track under 1.22.000 (or even 1.22.500:-) using 33 spoiler setting with your normal setup. Picnic time, folks;-)
But maybe the biggest advantage using this kind of very stable setup optimizing is that its now possible to CRUISE round this track lap after lap at around 1.21.500. Beat that:-)

Thats all from BrunoB RaceLab for now.
Now I have to get back into Drifting Heaven in the little Canadian 3_forty_9 townie.

#3 BrunoB

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Posted Jan 29 2010 - 05:48 AM

Because the above link is dead use this instead.
Its alive. Its alive:-)

3_Forty_9_No_Townie_WCR.zip
http://www.hdoml.com/files/349.html

NR2003 resource:
http://www.hdoml.com/files/

#4 BrunoB

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Posted Dec 30 2011 - 03:46 AM

New simple evolutionary setup method.
http://srmz.net/inde...?showtopic=6439

#5 Frank_Mueller

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Posted Dec 31 2011 - 12:00 PM

View PostBrunoB, on Jan 25 2010 - 03:45 AM, said:

And without any cheating with gripvalues or whatever (only using BrunoB GTP AI-Hacks v.1.1) I have managed to get down to a laptime of 1.21.114 with a spoiler setting af 33 (Sauber).
Furthermore Im ofcourse NOT using any of the socalled "direct shifting" advantages which automatically gives you extra seconds.

Without bragging I will challenge anyone to drive a whole lap round this track under 1.22.000 (or even 1.22.500:-) using 33 spoiler setting with your normal setup. Picnic time, folks;-)
But maybe the biggest advantage using this kind of very stable setup optimizing is that its now possible to CRUISE round this track lap after lap at around 1.21.500. Beat that:-)

Thats all from BrunoB RaceLab for now.
Now I have to get back into Drifting Heaven in the little Canadian 3_forty_9 townie.

Sounds interesting! Can you post a replay? I want to see drifting GTPs  :hat-tip:

P.S. where can i get your AI-Hacks?

#6 BrunoB

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Posted Jan 02 2012 - 08:09 AM

These setup discoveries was published 2 years ago!
But OK checking my replays I still have a real drifter showoff lap of 121.853 and a faster one of 121.029!
But before I upload any replays why dont you start yourself by posting your fastest replay lap on 3_forty_9 townie.
No reason to upload anything if you dont even have this track installed;-)
While you are installing the track you can check the following drifting pictures from the replays.

Conserning the BrunoB GTP AI-Hacks v.1.1 I dont really know where they are to be found.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 3_forty_9 townie drifting.jpg


#7 jgf

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Posted Jan 02 2012 - 10:44 PM

From the dark recesses of my old XP system:
Attached File  BrunoB GTP AI-Hacks v.1.1.7z   95.62K   304 downloads

#8 BrunoB

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Posted Jan 03 2012 - 03:26 AM

thank you very much jgf
Now I dont have to find and upload these hacks myself;-)

The only part of the hacks I now consider irrelevant is the time consuming AI opponent re-rating part.
Instead of the cumbersome manuel editing I use a default 40-60 rating and then control the AI strength via the Computer Opponent Strength in the menu.

View PostBrunoB GTP AI-Hacks, on Jan 02 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

The second part(2) takes some more time.
The first step is to write down what name of the 4 brands in GTP the different drivers belong to.
IE which of the drivers/car displaying in the Opponents Manager belongs to the initial selection of chassis:
(Toyota) Chassis A - 3ChaA.gtp.car
(Jaguar) Chassis B - 2ChaB.gtp.car
(Sauber) Chassis C - 4ChaC.gtp.car
(Mazda)  Chassis D - 1ChaD.gtp.car
And then when you are absolutely sure of that. Then its time to edit all the Toyotas.

a. First write down all the Min/Max ratings in the included Toyota_ratings.jpg
b. Then in the Opponents Managers Ratings open all the Toyotas (one by one) and insert the values from Toyota_ratings.jpg. ALL the values.


#9 Frank_Mueller

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Posted Jan 03 2012 - 10:40 AM

View PostBrunoB, on Jan 02 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

These setup discoveries was published 2 years ago!
But OK checking my replays I still have a real drifter showoff lap of 121.853 and a faster one of 121.029!
But before I upload any replays why dont you start yourself by posting your fastest replay lap on 3_forty_9 townie.
No reason to upload anything if you dont even have this track installed;-)
While you are installing the track you can check the following drifting pictures from the replays.

Conserning the BrunoB GTP AI-Hacks v.1.1 I dont really know where they are to be found.

Your post is really amusing!
I don't install any tracks, i drive them all mental, because in this way, i don't need a big hdd  :lol:
You are using the same method to identify my installed tracks for sure :P
I drove some laps with my Watkins Glen setup without changes on this unknown track. But no lap was faster than 1:30. This was the reason, why i wrote to you.
A replay from me will be not interesting for anyone, but i can create and post one, if this will be necessary for you to post yours. ;)

#10 Frank_Mueller

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Posted Jan 03 2012 - 10:41 AM

View Postjgf, on Jan 02 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

From the dark recesses of my old XP system:
Attachment BrunoB GTP AI-Hacks v.1.1.7z

Thank you very much  :clap2:

#11 BrunoB

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Posted Jan 04 2012 - 03:16 AM

View PostFrank_Mueller, on Jan 03 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Your post is really amusing!
I don't install any tracks, i drive them all mental, because in this way, i don't need a big hdd  :lol:
Then we can really amuse each other.
Because if I would drive a "mental" lap on 3_forty_9 townie I can easily lap even faster than 120.something.
Using a special (and secret) "mental" setup.
And drift the GTP Sauber even more extreme than when Im driving "un-mental".
But in my mind that would not be so entertaining as driving the sim for real.
---
Further amusement:
One of the newcommers in our FSB GTP league has just published these videos.
Nr 2 video shows some amazing GTP drifting.
And its possible to watch these videos without installing anything on HD(except Windows):-)



Edited by BrunoB, Jan 05 2012 - 05:03 AM.


#12 Frank_Mueller

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Posted Jan 07 2012 - 06:08 AM

thanks for the videos! Very fine!

Using an american proxy, i can watch this in Germany, too  :thumbup:

My best drift angle was in simracing 180°! So i had to drive the rest of the track backwards  :yeah:




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