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Physics Of F1 Seven (Crew) Mod For F1 Challenge 99-02


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#1 guiporsche

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Posted Oct 09 2017 - 04:23 AM

Hello,

Does anyone around here is knowledgeable about the original F1 Seven mod? Although I regard it as an absolute unsurpassed master piece in terms of graphical detail (where else you can find the 70-5 seasons with all cars and liveries?) I always found the physics to be way, way out.
Compared to the GPL 69 cars per instance, or even the rfactor 79's (which had ground effect for Christ's sake!), the F1 Seven cars are just glued to the track and understeer like pigs.

Although I'm no physics expert I'm looking to at least compile a list of things that are wrong and can be changed for future reference. I know it's an old game but the mod was not wholly converted to rfactor and what was did not seem very well done.

So far one of the things I more or less sorted out are the tyres, which in the original game are entirely wrong and are probably the main culprit for making the cars so tame.
For my private use only, of course, I borrowed the tyres from the rfactor HSO 1972 F5000 mod and F1 Seven became an entirely different game, very much more GPL-wise and akin to vids from those times. In two words: a powerslide party.

I'm also looking to get some other things right, in particular 'mass', which I'm not sure the modders got very right. The cars' weight in those times is usually between 550 and 590 and I see 'mass' values varying wildly from low to high 600's.

So yeah, if you have any further feedback on this mod's physics it will be most appreciated!

Edited by guiporsche, Oct 09 2017 - 05:02 AM.


#2 twinpotter

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Posted Oct 09 2017 - 04:31 PM

Don't know if your aware of the player PLR file.
Alter the Half rate for more realistic physics.
Also some other stuff you can do.
Just alter with notepad.
If it won't save directly in the directory after altering. Copy the plr file to desktop. Alter there then copy and paste into player file over original plr file. Don't forget to keep a copy too of original plr file.

https://www.grandpri...5,297190,297233

Hope this helps and what your looking for.

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#3 guiporsche

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Posted Oct 12 2017 - 01:29 PM

Cheers Twinpotter!

I actually knew about it (as I had made that tweak to get a better feel with 99-02 cars) but completely forgot to add it to the F1 Seven Mods. So thanks for refreshing my memory :) It does get a bit better, but it's definitely a question of tyres; plus the default setup is very understeery.

For those potentially interested: the first releases of F1 Seven consisted of 75, 74 & 73: all made by the same modding team, and the feeling is usually good.
Then there was 72,71,70, but these were made by a different modding team, which carried on with the unfinished material left by the original modders. The physics are basically copy-pasted from the previous releases, and often with some incongruent values. And after looking at the files I found out that the tyres were not made from scratch (like in 73-5) but taken from some Rfactor mod ( and definitely not a good one).

So either I'll use the 73-5 tyres but modified according to 70-2 evolving dimensions; or further tweak those from the HSO mod. ANy of these solutions, though, is a lot of fun as the cars are more challenging and loose.

#4 twinpotter

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Posted Oct 12 2017 - 03:50 PM

No problem 😊

F1 Challenge 99-02 as always been one of my favourite games.

You can even get some pre seventies mods.

http://alliance.bond.../f1c_tracks.htm

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=Wi-nqN9s3Qs

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#5 twinpotter

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Posted Oct 12 2017 - 04:00 PM

And:

http://valpaso75.xoom.it/

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#6 Luigi 70

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Posted Oct 13 2017 - 11:44 AM

View Postguiporsche, on Oct 12 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

Cheers Twinpotter!

I actually knew about it (as I had made that tweak to get a better feel with 99-02 cars) but completely forgot to add it to the F1 Seven Mods. So thanks for refreshing my memory :) It does get a bit better, but it's definitely a question of tyres; plus the default setup is very understeery.

For those potentially interested: the first releases of F1 Seven consisted of 75, 74 & 73: all made by the same modding team, and the feeling is usually good.
Then there was 72,71,70, but these were made by a different modding team, which carried on with the unfinished material left by the original modders. The physics are basically copy-pasted from the previous releases, and often with some incongruent values. And after looking at the files I found out that the tyres were not made from scratch (like in 73-5) but taken from some Rfactor mod ( and definitely not a good one).

So either I'll use the 73-5 tyres but modified according to 70-2 evolving dimensions; or further tweak those from the HSO mod. ANy of these solutions, though, is a lot of fun as the cars are more challenging and loose.

There are two errors:
The 1971 mod (as 1973-74-75) was also made by the original authors (Team Crew).
Then, I participated in the 1970 and 1972 production (TNT Team) and I do not think we took anything from rfactor, considering that for that game have never released nothing  of that years.
And the few mod that you find are all conversions of F1 Challenge's mods.

and since a bit of race simulation history is never too much, here are release dates ....

F1 Seven - Team Crew
1975 mod - release date October,2005
1974 mod - release date May, 2007
1971 mod - release date Febbrary,2008
1973 mod - release date September, 2009


F1 Seven - TNT Team
1972 mod - release date August, 2011
1970 mod - release date June,2012

Edited by Luigi 70, Oct 13 2017 - 01:32 PM.


#7 guiporsche

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Posted Oct 14 2017 - 11:20 AM

Saluti Luigi,

Thank you for the clarifications (and for your great work over all these years)! Rest assured that it lives on!

I stand corrected, becaus the TNT team surely did not take anything from rfactor. I went back to check the original files and in the 73 mod the tyre files contain these lines:

"// A cross-ply track tyre from 1970.
// Five compounds
// v3 - Restated heating and wear factors
// rFactor values used to calc LoadSens
// AIGripMult at standatrd values Front and increased at the Rear to rstabilise the back"

These same files were then used in the following releases by Crew and TNT (71; 72, 70) so it was probably a matter that the original CREW team did not have much time to work on the 73 tyres.

P.S. My comments are/were not intended as criticisms; I was just trying to lay down a list of things that could be improved on the great work that CREW & TNT did.

Edited by guiporsche, Oct 14 2017 - 11:23 AM.


#8 Luigi 70

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Posted Oct 15 2017 - 02:09 AM

Ok...
When you finish your job, we'd be happy to use it.
Good luck. :wave:




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