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Longford And Other Historical Trax


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#16 Frenchy

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Posted Aug 01 2010 - 10:04 PM

Jim pearson..from his website said:


Having said all that I have recently relaxed my stance in relation to the two Dundrod tracks, principally because I believe this RL road track deserves to be appreciated by the widest audience. That doesn’t mean a free for all though. I still expect people, using their real names, to approach me by private message at RSC with any conversion proposal, listing their experience and indicating a willingness to accept some simple conditions, designed to protect my copyright and the amateur status of this work. I am also not against texture upgrading, so long as the replacements are reasonably authentic.



I'm not an rFactor fan, but I am a fan of GPL ... and the internet. The internet is a lovely example of anarchy where we can all choose to share and show respect for each other... or we could just sink in to chaos.

#17 Remy

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Posted Aug 02 2010 - 02:41 AM

I'm just wondering why you guys are focused on rFactor, as these tracks were also converted to GTL/GTR2 and therefore used by P&G players. It would be fair to post some claims there too, wouldn't it?

http://srmz.net/inde...?showtopic=3834


Or better at NoGrip in GTR/GTL sections, they are usually converted to these plateforms first...

http://www.nogriprac...s.php?subcat=46

Edited by Remy, Aug 02 2010 - 02:57 AM.


#18 David Wright Lo67

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Posted Aug 02 2010 - 03:36 AM

I'd be wary of assuming no permission has been given.  I think there is a difference between Jims tracks and the GPLEA tracks.  Jim's stance is well known, but the GPLEA have given permission in the past for conversions of their tracks.  Indeed, Motorfx who released this Clermont Ferrand conversion has previously converted GPLEA Goodwood with permission.  I don't specifically know if he got permission for this but in general he does get permission.  The Clermont Ferrand track also mentions the CSGT team and I would think they would get permission.  I also seem to remember vaguely that permission was given to convert Clermont Ferrand to F1C.

Edited by David Wright Lo67, Aug 02 2010 - 03:56 AM.


#19 Arturo Pereira

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Posted Aug 02 2010 - 06:06 AM

Remy :)

Perhaps because this is an rFactor forum?

#20 Remy

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Posted Aug 02 2010 - 06:16 AM

Sure, but curiously, I can't find such kind of claim over the P&G forum  :rolleyes:

Discrimination? :think:

:)

Edited by Remy, Aug 02 2010 - 06:27 AM.


#21 Arturo Pereira

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Posted Aug 02 2010 - 07:39 AM

View PostRemy, on Aug 02 2010 - 06:16 AM, said:

Sure, but curiously, I can't find such kind of claim over the P&G forum  :rolleyes:

Discrimination? :think:

:)

No, I do not think it is discrimination. I guess the point is that rFactor seems to attract much more attention than P&G.

#22 M Needforspeed

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Posted Aug 02 2010 - 08:54 AM

in a certain way, as noted Rudy, all those conversions are an homage to GPL.In the sense many gamers are perhaps bored very soon with all the modern tracks on the R Factor or P&G lists.
1967 tracks and the like are on demand, to regenerate, bring freshness on an otherwise boring world of all those look alike tracks.

In any case, it excuse the attitude of copying .

To illustrate by an example :it is sad that for Clermont Ferrand, an old well known GPLer and RSC addict feel obliged to explain the "improvement" to the GPL track they use !Like if it was only a basis, a rough beta for their work ! Plain treachery.Like if he wanted to hide the well known origin of the layout.  

  In 2004, I sent the elevation data to modders, after a contact with Patrice Besqueut, manager of the Automobile Club d' Auvergne.All elevations and data calculations where done by Phil Flack and Martijn,and I don't see how this Masterpiece could be improved by changing grass textures and some asphalt.It was , from the start, the most accurate  interpretation of the track, with the tools and infos we had then collected.
  The argument " to make it look like it was " is not sustainable, either. Simply, because the real C F layout is different in many places than the GPL version.

  In August 2008,I walked on all the Charade track, taking pics of every corner.I went to the conclusion that driving on the real Charade 1958 - 1988 track would need starting it again from scratch.Mainly  for the section between Gravenoire and Le Petit Pont.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Aug 02 2010 - 10:35 AM.


#23 David Wright Lo67

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Posted Aug 02 2010 - 09:06 AM

Having read the readme for Clermont - permission was obtained from Nils of the GPLEA in 2006.  Personally I don't doubt this as I know permission was given for Goodwood and Snetterton.

#24 David Wright Lo67

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Posted Aug 02 2010 - 09:12 AM

View PostM Needforspeed, on Aug 02 2010 - 08:54 AM, said:

in a certain way, as noted Rudy, all those conversions are an homage to GPL.In the sense many gamers are perhaps bored very soon with all the modern tracks on the R Factor or P&G lists.
1967 tracks and the like are on demand, to regenerate, bring freshness on an otherwise boring world of all those look alike tracks.


The main driving force behind the conversion of these old tracks was the CSGT teams WSC70 mod.

#25 M Needforspeed

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Posted Aug 02 2010 - 09:23 AM

[quote name='David Wright Lo67' date='02 August 2010 - 04:12 PM' timestamp='1280761950' post='49291']

[/quote]

The main driving force behind the conversion of these old tracks was the CSGT teams WSC70 mod.
[/quote]

  David

... so they have done fanciful add ons that didn't need to be justified.

  it's only my view, but at least when they get the green flag for conversions,they shouldn't change tracks surroundings, when those are rather accurates.Unless it is linked to the conversion process.

    I am only dreaming ...  :wave:

#26 M Needforspeed

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Posted Dec 01 2010 - 10:36 AM

View PostDavid Wright Lo67, on Aug 02 2010 - 03:36 AM, said:

I'd be wary of assuming no permission has been given.  I think there is a difference between Jims tracks and the GPLEA tracks.  Jim's stance is well known, but the GPLEA have given permission in the past for conversions of their tracks.  Indeed, Motorfx who released this Clermont Ferrand conversion has previously converted GPLEA Goodwood with permission.  I don't specifically know if he got permission for this but in general he does get permission.  The Clermont Ferrand track also mentions the CSGT team and I would think they would get permission.  I also seem to remember vaguely that permission was given to convert Clermont Ferrand to F1C.


    David,

    Until they didn 't at least copy and post the answer by mail of the author,I 'll have doubt converters seeked for permission

"don't specifically  know if he got permission for this but in general he does get permission "

As conservative as it may sound, if its 'nt possible to contact anymore a track author, for any reason,(disappeared from the web, dead e.mail ect...),can't be understood as a " yes, you can convert it"

  And certain converters, after waiting sometimes, certainly think: ""as I tried to contact him/them, and did my best at that,enough is enough.Let ' s convert the track!".Free or making money isn 't the matter.It is well an indirect thief attitude.

  And I am with Arturo for all the arguments put by Rudy.

  Above all, beyond that, at RFactor who wld want to promote GPL by redirecting to the links of the track authors or to GPL Trackdatabase ?
  It wld be a polite rewarding, but they know that manys newcomers wld try GPL.
  Using GPL work, but not promoting it, that' s sound strange and a faking thing, to me.

michel

Edited by M Needforspeed, Dec 01 2010 - 10:40 AM.


#27 Rudy Dingemans

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Posted Dec 01 2010 - 04:09 PM

It just depends on how you want to look at it. Thievery, however, I'll say it again, it is not since no money is involved and nothing is stolen (taken away from someone). It may be breach of copyright, but not theft. Wrong term.

That said, I do think GPL tracks being copied to other platforms is promoting GPL as "the Original Mother of old tracks and cars". It *is* making GPL more well known outside its own circle of insiders - I've seen it happen online plenty of times.

If *only* GPL drivers knew about GPL, there would be few simracers having even heard of it today.  :blink: It's driver numbers are 100 times smaller than they used to be, because there are so many alternatives nowadays. Some of them bad, some good.

I agree that if possible, permission for conversion should be asked. But sometimes track authors simply disappear from the simracing world, and change mail addresses or online nicknames. I once tried to find Teru-san for a possible conversion of his Shutoko track (which hasn't happened yet), but being from 2001 it's very old and he's nowhere to be found online atm.

In such cases, it's simply a case of either the track rot away unused in ever-dwindling GPL land, or give it new life in a new sim. Personally I don't think that's bad, as long as you tried to give credit. Sometime authors are simply unavailable, but usually they don't mind conversion if credit is given.


Of course, if the tracks are old enough sometimes it's just better to start over and make a new version of the track. :2c:

Regards, Rudy
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PS. Personally, I have two tracks in the works, nearly ready and due for release in the short term future. I don't mind people converting and improving them later on - in fact, I intend to release their project files later. But because we know by now how hard it often is to find a track author who made something in 2002, I plan to include the conversion permission guidelines in the accompanying Readme. It's a pity we didn't think of these things earlier, would have made things in trackland often a whole lot easier.

Edited by Rudy Dingemans, Dec 01 2010 - 04:10 PM.


#28 Iron99

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Posted Jul 25 2012 - 04:51 PM

Hi all,

I am looking for a link to download Brno 1965 (full version) for rFactor. Anyone have a link?

I loved this track in GPL, and would really enjoy running it in rFactor Hictoric GT mod :).

If someone has a link, thank you :).

Iron99

#29 Iron99

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Posted Aug 30 2012 - 05:20 PM

View PostIron99, on Jul 25 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Hi all,

I am looking for a link to download Brno 1965 (full version) for rFactor. Anyone have a link?

I loved this track in GPL, and would really enjoy running it in rFactor Hictoric GT mod :).

If someone has a link, thank you :).

Iron99

Why is this track so darn hard to find?

Iron99

#30 Rudy Dingemans

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Posted Aug 30 2012 - 05:55 PM

I already mailed it to you once, didn't I? You should have the exact same files as I do.... (two xxHI.mas files and 11 in the Brno65Hires folder, of which only five are important).

Regards, Rudy
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