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Longford And Other Historical Trax


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#1 Rudy Dingemans

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Posted Jul 10 2010 - 10:13 PM

Well, after a long wait Woochoo has finally released his Longford (of Tasman fame) track for rFactor.


More info here:

http://www.rfactorce...D=Longford 1967

It's supposed to be released for GTR2 (P&G!) as well.



On a related note, rather a lot of historical tracks we know from GPL (or that were supposed to be in the works at some point) have recently been released for rF as well. Some are definitely better than others, there are some quickie conversions out there. But I'll mention some of the better ones which I've been able to test myself:


- Brno65 Hi-Res
- Dundrod 1950 Hi-Res
- Hockenheim 67
- Solitude (Hi-Res update in the works)
- Tulln-Langenlebarn (released with permission by SergioLoro)
- Mosport67 (quickie but quite decent)
- Summit Point, Aldo Scribante, Clermont65 (ditto)
- The Ring 67 (aka 'The Mother' or 70sNurburgring)
- Monza10k (with & without banking) is out there too, now
- Linkoping/Sviestad/Kinnekulle/Gellerasen are all good little tracks in rF,
- Salzburgring74, Westwood 1990, Glen and Zandy67 (all decent quickies)
- Kyalami (Kyalami79 for the 79 Mod) is good,
- as is Reims67 in the GTL conversion,
- Fuji 67 - 93 by VLM, ditto,
- Mainz-Finthen 89 is a different layout from the GPL track but very good nonetheless,
- Rouen by Virtua_LM is a masterpiece, at least as good as 'our' old GPL version.

I'm guessing most of these can be converted (or have been converted) to GTR2 etc without too much trouble, although I've little experience in that respect.

Regards, Rudy
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Edited by Rudy Dingemans, Jul 15 2010 - 05:10 PM.


#2 sky

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Posted Jul 11 2010 - 04:11 AM

well some weeks ago researching stuff for spa67 i found a few tracks / trackupdates that at least tickled my fancy. but alas i haven't got r-factor installed at this time, i didn't get them. longford was among them - which is currently downloading. i think spa67 was looking good, too, but i have no idea on accuracy as i haven't driven it and screenshots only tell you so much. the screens appeared to have some nice detail though.

i'd be interested to see your verdict on them. quickie but ok sounds not too convincing tbh ;), not with what r-factor could potentially offer in regards to resolution of the track and general detail... :idunno:

#3 Claudio Pablo Navonne

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Posted Jul 11 2010 - 04:47 AM

:) Thanks mate!!

#4 Burnsy865

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Posted Jul 15 2010 - 01:29 AM

Thanks Rudy. :thumbup:

#5 M Needforspeed

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Posted Jul 15 2010 - 07:13 AM

and I suppose the Longford can 't work on reverse, being converted for GPL ?

GPL track makers have authorized so much conversions of their work for others platforms, that it would be nice they get some rewards !!

  Chosing the year 1967 shows how much the original GPL influenced the mind of R factorers :didn 't they use the not finished work of the GPL Tasman team  ?

Edited by M Needforspeed, Jul 15 2010 - 07:17 AM.


#6 Arturo Pereira

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Posted Jul 16 2010 - 11:45 PM

67Spa or Spa67 for rFactor is a direct conversion from the original GPL track, so both have the same layout.

As for Dundrod 1950 for rFactor, did Jim Pearson authorized this version??  :rolleyes:

#7 M Needforspeed

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Posted Jul 17 2010 - 03:23 AM

View PostArturo Pereira, on Jul 16 2010 - 11:45 PM, said:

67Spa or Spa67 for rFactor is a direct conversion from the original GPL track, so both have the same layout.

As for Dundrod 1950 for rFactor, did Jim Pearson authorized this version??  :rolleyes:


Arturo,

by looking here, your question would apply to albi and Brno 65 ect....

http://srmz.net/inde...opic=3834&st=60

What I can say,, is that knowing Alain Bosco when I helped him for the Albi track data, he didn 't want any conversion.Perhaps someone contacted him, and he changed his mind since.

Edited by M Needforspeed, Jul 17 2010 - 03:23 AM.


#8 Arturo Pereira

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Posted Jul 17 2010 - 06:43 AM

View PostM Needforspeed, on Jul 17 2010 - 03:23 AM, said:

View PostArturo Pereira, on Jul 16 2010 - 11:45 PM, said:

67Spa or Spa67 for rFactor is a direct conversion from the original GPL track, so both have the same layout.

As for Dundrod 1950 for rFactor, did Jim Pearson authorized this version??  :rolleyes:


Arturo,

by looking here, your question would apply to albi and Brno 65 ect....

http://srmz.net/inde...opic=3834&st=60

What I can say,, is that knowing Alain Bosco when I helped him for the Albi track data, he didn 't want any conversion.Perhaps someone contacted him, and he changed his mind since.

Hi :)

both Albi67 and Brno65 were converted with permission from the original authors  :artist:  but I bet that Dundrod is just the work of thieves  :blink:

#9 Remy

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Posted Jul 17 2010 - 10:04 AM

View PostM Needforspeed, on Jul 17 2010 - 03:23 AM, said:



What I can say,, is that knowing Alain Bosco when I helped him for the Albi track data, he didn 't want any conversion.Perhaps someone contacted him, and he changed his mind since.

Times are moving on

from the read me :

rFactor Albi67 V2.0

Origin of circuit Alain Bosco LPG

Conversion and update by Neel Jani
I thank Alain Bosco for the authorization


Obviously our beloved Gpl is dying slowly. At least, those conversions keep it alive somewhere... And some are very well done  :artist:

#10 Arturo Pereira

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Posted Jul 17 2010 - 12:26 PM

Hi Remy :)

I guess GPL will keep on dying slowly for the next .... 20 years ? :)

#11 Rudy Dingemans

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Posted Jul 17 2010 - 02:46 PM

View PostArturo Pereira, on Jul 17 2010 - 06:43 AM, said:

both Albi67 and Brno65 were converted with permission from the original authors  :artist:  but I bet that Dundrod is just the work of thieves  :blink:

That's rather harsh. I bet that conversion wasn't given by Jim since I know his old stance on such matters (don't know for sure though since personally I don't care - already have the original GPL track, after all), but it was done without stealing anything (=theft) and made available for free, with no money involved at all. Like GPL track works/conversions, this was all volunteer work.

Pretty good one, too, since after it was released on F1Classic in private as a quick conversion, TenTenths (the guy who converted it) went back and addressed the weak points in his original release, and with due care, came out with a much better looking Hi-Res version, and another one with dynamic shadows added as well. The result was a track that can be called a really decent conversion and in some respects even better looking than the original.

He didn't deliver just shoddy work and left it at that, but put in the hours to make it worthwhile. While that may not make it an official conversion, he did do a good job nonetheless. For free.    :hat-tip:

Dundrod screenies:

http://img408.images...i/grab009x.jpg/
http://img413.images.../i/grab043.jpg/
http://img20.imagesh...i/grab041t.jpg/


Same for Brno65 and Tulln-Langenlebarn, and those *were* done with permission. (The latter is here, btw: http://www.mediafire.com/?mmqztzenemj )

Personally, I see it as a way of keeping GPL tracks alive and driven by more people over time.

(Also, it'll make these old tracks easier to convert to GTR2/P&G etc, and in the case of Dundrod, will make it possible to drive it with more different historical car types like sports cars, instead of just the 65/66/67 F1, which of course never drove there. To me it's an addition to the old GPL tracks, not a detraction of the original work, which remains intact for GPL.)

Regards, Rudy
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PS. With regard to Longford: I *think* it was originally started for GPL by a guy called Bernd (not quite sure though), but then kind of left unfinished, until it was picked up by Woochoo and then re-started more or less from scratch. Took a looooooong time to come out since Woochoo is maybe even more of a stickler for detail than Jim Pearson Esq., but I'd say the result was worth it.

Edited by Bill, Mar 02 2011 - 11:33 AM.
Author of track converted request. Link removed.


#12 Arturo Pereira

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Posted Jul 18 2010 - 12:59 AM

View PostRudy Dingemans, on Jul 17 2010 - 02:46 PM, said:


............don't know for sure though since personally I don't care - already have the original GPL track, after all.......


It is obvious that you do not care, perhaps because the original track was not done by you after a couple of years of hard work, not only with the track itself but investing lots of hours of compiling information, looking for pictures and movies, etc..
Now, do you really think that Dundrod 1950 for rFactor is a track made from scratch?? or it is just the product of stealing other people´s work, Jim Pearson in this case??

In my world, a thief is a thief and I do not know any other name to name it. Do you?

The fact that you say that Dundrod 1950 for rFactor was released by the site F1 Classics very well describes the origins of this version. Was Slimjim the same guy that had stolen parts of the GPLEA and 1965 mod for his 1967 f1 mod for rFactor?? Before you say something stupid, I will tell you the answer: YES, it is the same guy.

If you think you can have fun enjoying stolen materials, that is your privilege. This is a free world and I do not think Jim Pearson will start legal actions about this, but besides all legal actions, there is something I consider important: ethics. You know very well Jim Pearson did Dundrod 1950 for GPL and you know very well he does not want his tracks converted to rFactor, don´t you? Yes, you know, period.

Now, you are just justifing the robbery of Jim´s work. All the blah blah is just a shameless justification of the thieves and of the fact that you enjoy with the product of the robbery.

Do you really think that the way to keep GPL tracks alive is to steal them without even a mention to the original author? Did you find a readme.txt in Dundrod 1950 for rFactor saying who the original author is AND that he gave his authorization to the conversion?? You can´t find what it is not there, period.

Shame on the ones like you Ruud that enjoy what has been stolen.

#13 Rudy Dingemans

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Posted Jul 18 2010 - 01:08 PM

[quote name='Arturo Pereira' date='18 July 2010 - 07:59 AM' timestamp='1279436340' post='48706']
In my world, a thief is a thief and I do not know any other name to name it. Do you?[/quote]

Yes, I do, since in this case nothing was stolen. It was converted without permission, yes. But since no money was involved, that's not theft (technically it's breach of copyright, sure - but since it was all done for free and not for profit, theft is something different imho.)


Sorry if you can't see the difference, Arturo, and I do understand your point of view. I probably would've said the same thing if any of it was done for ca$h - but it wasn't.

[quote name='Arturo Pereira' date='18 July 2010 - 07:59 AM' timestamp='1279436340' post='48706']
Was Slimjim the same guy that had stolen parts of the GPLEA and 1965 mod for his 1967 f1 mod for rFactor?? Before you say something stupid, I will tell you the answer: YES, it is the same guy. [/quote]

Well, I know SJ did make a slapdash job of making a quickie F1-67 mod using Gplea parts. He still does, although by now it's not quite as bad as it once was. It's not a mod I downloaded or want to use, though, since imho as a conversion it's just not up to the standards yet (F1-74, F1-75 and F1-71 same thing).  :blink:

[quote name='Arturo Pereira' date='18 July 2010 - 07:59 AM' timestamp='1279436340' post='48706']
If you think you can have fun enjoying stolen materials, that is your privilege. You know very well Jim Pearson did Dundrod 1950 for GPL and you know very well he does not want his tracks converted to rFactor, don´t you? Yes, you know, period. [/quote]

I'm just not that bothered personally and I don't think it's theft. If JP or anyone else doesn't want to have something converted and then someone does it anyway, it's his problem. But he could, of course, have known that from the start.
It's always been like this on the Internet: if you put it on the Net, sooner or later it's going to be copied *regardless*. If you don't want that, don't put it on the Net.  :2c:

Personally, I draw the line if it's done to profit from other people's work. In these cases, it wasn't like that.

[quote name='Arturo Pereira' date='18 July 2010 - 07:59 AM' timestamp='1279436340' post='48706']
Now, you are just justifing the robbery of Jim´s work. [/quote]

No I don't, since it isn't robbery. If Jim had asked for cash to download his tracks (bad idea, but anyway), or the guy who'd converted it, then it might have been. Now, it isn't. Period.

[quote name='Arturo Pereira' date='18 July 2010 - 07:59 AM' timestamp='1279436340' post='48706']Do you really think that the way to keep GPL tracks alive is to steal them without even a mention to the original author? [/quote]

Well, that's a more complex question that deserves a more thoughtful answer.

I agree with you that at least credit should be given to the original author, even for a conversion without permission. But the converter guys may not always be willing, or bothered, to do that. I think they should, but they're going to do what they want anyway, regardless of what we'd like.

In general, I do think conversion and expansion of the old GPL tracks is a way to keep them alive. GPL as an active community isn't going to be around forever, and there is far to much work involved in making GPL tracks to let it go to waste. Once converted (with permission preferably, but in all cases nonetheless) they will at least be updated and driven for many more years. If they were tied *only* to GPL, hundreds of sim racers will never have known or driven these tracks and that's a bit of a shame, since many of them are very good and worthy of preserving in one form or another.

So in that respect, yes, as long as credit is given, I do think it's a good thing they're converted and used in more current and future sims. The original tracks can still be driven in GPL, after all, they just get spread to other platforms as well, and driven by more drivers who like historical sims.

[quote name='Arturo Pereira' date='18 July 2010 - 07:59 AM' timestamp='1279436340' post='48706']
Shame on the ones like you Ruud that enjoy what has been stolen.
[/quote]

Since nothing was stolen (just copied and redistributed for free as a voluntary service), I don't feel ashamed at all (as stated, I already have the original track for GPL so I don't feel bad about using a different version of the same track). I just want the conversion (and like I said, it *would* have been converted sooner or later anyway) to do justice to the original work.

You take a hardline stance on this and I understand that. Now, personally, I don't. There's no cash involved and that's good.  :thumbup:  And as long as it stays that way, I'm ok with it.  

(Not that it matters anyway since like I said, people are going to convert stuff no matter *what* we think.

And, also, y'may want to lighten up about the whole issue a bit since all this grumbling bout extra copies of old GPL tracks is probably bad for yer blood pressure, or something ;) )

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank: -40)

Edited by Rudy Dingemans, Jul 18 2010 - 02:15 PM.


#14 M Needforspeed

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Posted Aug 01 2010 - 03:32 PM

another conversion , posted yesterday at No Grip.

Clermont Ferrand (Charade ). What about authorization from Phil Flack and Martijn Keizer ?

Edited by M Needforspeed, Aug 02 2010 - 12:30 AM.


#15 Arturo Pereira

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Posted Aug 01 2010 - 04:08 PM

View PostM Needforspeed, on Aug 01 2010 - 03:32 PM, said:

another conversion , posted yesterday at No Grip.

Clermont Ferrand (Charade ). What about authorization from Phil Flack and Martin Keizer ?

From the Readme file that is included with Dundrod50, by Jim Pearson:

"These files are not to be copied, used in full or in part for any commercial purpose, converted to other simulations, or mirrored on other sites without my specific written permission."


In the case, of Clermont, the original authors are mentioned (Martijn Keizer, Phil Flack, Fredde Nornemark and Svend Seegert) but again the track was converted without authorization or permission since it is not mentioned in the readme.

It seems this is the standard procedure in the rFactor world and this procedure has its supporters here.

Edited by Arturo Pereira, Aug 01 2010 - 04:12 PM.





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