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Who Says They Don't Make Good Movies Anymore?

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#41 Pete Gaimari

Pete Gaimari

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Posted Dec 09 2019 - 09:34 AM

John......I owned a 10 second hemi Cuda in my younger days. It was my daily driver and scared the hell out of my wife when she had to drive it. :)

#42 M Needforspeed

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Posted Dec 12 2019 - 03:06 PM

translated from this webpage.Just because it relates all the differences with how it was in RL. I pointed at some of them in a post above

and on the french market, the movie title is well LE MANS 66 ( seecapture) and not FORD VERSUS FERRARI.Surely to get more success at the box office, as the track is on my country. On the first week, was on snd position for the number of entries, that is an unexpected very good result just behind the much advertised  Roman Polanski movie about Dreyfus affair,just released and  that is recognized as one of his best movie.


What about Le Mans 66 in all this?

Those who have already seen the film will find that it is generally true to what happened but that some facts are still reported in a slightly different way from the story. And then I'll object, what does it matter?

First of all, you have to see the film as what it is, a cinematographic work against a backdrop of motor sports in the society of the sixties, not as a documentary. As a result, the story is necessarily a bit romanticized.
Matt-Damon-Carroll-Shelby - Christian-Bale-Ken-Miles - Copyright-inconnued

First of all, it should be noted that the film is directed by excellent actors. Matt Damon is very credible in Carroll Shelby and Christian Bale is Ken Miles with mastery.

"The film is about two men who have come together to do something great. Beating Ferrari, in Le Mans, was their obsession. I knew nothing about the friendship between Carroll Shelby and Ken Miles," says the actor. It's a beautiful story. As a former pilot, Shelby admired Miles' infinite talent behind the wheel,... and, as a friend, accepted his lack of diplomacy. Years later, in an interview, Shelby was still talking about him with emotion. »

Matt Damon

The collaboration between the two actors went very well during the shooting and the complicity appears on the screen. "He's fantastic," confirms Matt, referring to Christian. I have seen all his films and I must admit that I was very curious to see his creative process up close. His generosity, his kindness, his humility impressed me. »

Overall, the historical truth is transcribed, if not faithfully followed. For example, at the beginning of the film that looks back at Carroll Shelby's victory at Le Mans in 1959 with Roy Saladori on an Aston Martin.

The car racing enthusiast who remembers these years or has documented himself is delighted to see the beginning of the adventure of the giants of the race across the Atlantic, such as Dan Gurney and Bob Bondurant, in the scenes that transcribe it. The cars used are faithful to the originals. 34 cars were rebuilt for filming and the viewer does not realize the lack of power of the replicas. "Some of them had MX5 engines," Matt Damon will admit. Thanks to the good work of director James Mangold and his team, the audience only sees monsters roaring their speed rage. And the scenery is credible, especially the stands and the start and finish straight line.

Afterwards, some freedoms deviate from the pure truth. For example, the negotiations with Ferrari lasted longer than the scenario suggests. And the agreement with FIAT will come later, two years after the break-up of negotiations with Ford, not at the same time.

Ken Miles was probably a little difficult. Not "a kitten", as Carroll Shelby claims in the film. But still more policed than in the scenario. In addition, Leo Beebe's hostility is exaggerated. Ken was probably not his favourite driver and the wish that he would not win seems likely. But he was not excluded from the team and had driven in Le Mans in 1965 on a GT40 MKII shared with Bruce McLaren (abandonment due to gearbox problems). Of course, Carroll's demonstration with Henry Ford as a passenger is fictional, as is the scene where Leo Beebe is locked in Shelby's office.

Miles and Ruby's victory at the 1966 Daytona 24 Hours was not won on the line at the end of the race but very clear. The crew won by 8 laps over Gurney and Grant's sister car, also driven by Shelby American Inc.

But the heightened rivalry between Ford and Ferrari is in line with the atmosphere of the Titans duel between the two automakers. Even if he didn't say it formally, it's easy to imagine Henry Ford saying, "Go ahead, Carroll, go to war. "Because yes, the American manufacturer wanted to bury Ferrari, 9 times winner in the Sarthe, including 6 consecutive victories from 1960 to 1965.

It is likely that Enzo Ferrari considered that Ford was building ugly cars in ugly factories. They were more affordable than Ferraris....

For the rest, I will talk more about omissions than inaccuracies. The N° 21 Ferrari P3, the most dangerous for the Fords, would be Lorenzo Bandini's machine in the film. It is to forget that the fastest of the red cars at the tests was that of Rodriguez and Ginther, who for a moment was at the front of the race. On the other hand, the Bandini and Guichet P3 will be the last P3 to give up. Not by blowing up his engine, but by stopping at the stand on Sunday morning at 9 a.m., betrayed by his transmission. Another mistake, the rider to have started on this machine was the French Jean Guichet who wore a white helmet and not the Italian Lorenzo Bandini. As I write these lines, Jean Guichet is still the last surviving pilot of the giants who were competing that year for the victory at Le Mans.

Many know that Enzo Ferrari did not travel on the circuits and that he did not attend the 1966 Le Mans 24 Hours.

The decision to bring the 3 Ford cars that took the first 3 places together was made and the decision of the organizers to bring the one that started furthest away on the starting grid was made. The fact that McLaren - Amon's car was slightly ahead of Miles - Hulme's was not the reason for the final ranking. The third MKII, the one from Bucknum - Hutcherson, was 12 laps behind and was actually behind the cars in front of it. However, unlike the film, the arrival took place under heavy rain and not under the spring sun.

And unfortunately, Ken Miles really killed himself a few weeks later during a test session attended by his son. He was trying an evolution of the GT40 MKII to become MKIV and would win first and fourth places at Le Mans 1967 in the hands of the crews Gurney-Foyt (N°1) and McLaren-Donohue (N°2). Pictures of miniature cars in the 1/43rd century contribute to the illustration of this note. Because the Ford GT40 MKII and MKIV were naturally reproduced, notably by Mebetoys and Solido, just like the Ferrari P3 (Solido among others).

Notwithstanding some minor inaccuracies, I remember from the film Le Mans 66 2 Hours 33 of happiness! Beautiful cars, actors playing their characters accurately. Engine noises reminiscent of the time of large atmospheric prototypes, duels of giants. A film not to be missed!

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Edited by M Needforspeed, Dec 12 2019 - 04:11 PM.

#43 Aysedasi


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Posted Dec 13 2019 - 06:18 AM

I thought this was a great movie.  As a Le Mans addict I know the Ford v Ferrari history pretty well and have just re-read 'Go Like Hell' as a reminder.  Yeah, there's plenty of historical inaccuracy and the film is really about Shelby and Miles (and I celebrate the fact that Miles gets the recognition he deserves).  The fact that others (like Beebe) are misrepresented or not really represented at all didn't really bother me as I went to movie to be entertained, not to nit-pick.  This is not a documentary, it's a movie.  And in my view, it's a very good, highly entertaining movie.

Edited by Aysedasi, Dec 13 2019 - 06:18 AM.

#44 fajanko


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Posted Feb 24 2020 - 03:12 AM

Finally I could watch the movie yesterday.

It was painful in some parts, but overall it was rather entertaining. Christan Bale (Miles) was perfect, and I loved Jon Bernthal (Iacocca) and Ray McKinnon (Remington) scenes too. Matt Damon (Shelby) was okay. Might have been a better choice though..
Racing scenes were awful, but it was the same with Rush. I did not like the villian role of Ferrari drivers, and Il Commandatore was a complete nonsense, except seeing him in the back of the garage at the table. Plus I don't mind that history was amended to a better dramaturgy, but leaving out the co-driver from a Le Mans 24h movie?????

+ 1 pt for having Outlander's Claire (Caitriona Balfe) as Mollie :)

Edited by fajanko, Feb 24 2020 - 03:30 AM.

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