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#1 albergman

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Posted Feb 10 2019 - 11:31 AM

Recently a couple of topics have inquired about the older drivers in GPL and I've already confessed (at 80) to being one of that elite crowd.  

My turn to ask a question ... I've never driven with anything but an out-of-the-box Logitech wheel and pedals and presently use a G27 setup.    I fully understand the desire to have more realistic feeling brake and clutch sets when you want to maximize the realism.

My question is whether the brakes on these after market devices do anything for stopping power?   i.e. would I stop in a shorter distance than the pots on my plastic pedals let me or is it just that they'll feel more realistic?

If the answer is a "yes" then what would be a recommended next step up ... without breaking the bank.

#2 Michkov

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Posted Feb 10 2019 - 02:10 PM

From what I've heard, load cell equipped pedals allow for a finer modulation at the threshold between locking up and keeping the wheels spinning. They are not necessarily better at stopping the car but help be more confident the brakes wont lock up from mashing the pedal hard so the driver is more consistent overall. At least that's the main takeaway from my reading on the matter.

#3 Spadowski

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Posted Feb 10 2019 - 02:28 PM

I think a lot depends on how good you are. If you're GOOD then I imagine yes, the better quality the better the braking. But if you've elephant feet like myself the lack of talent means very little difference:)

#4 twinpotter

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Posted Feb 10 2019 - 04:00 PM

I've seen people put sponges or tennis balls, in the crevice gap, behind cheap pedal sets, to create realistic pressure 🤔

TP:

#5 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Feb 11 2019 - 08:51 AM

I use a load cell on my brake. It takes a bit to get used to it but you'll be more consistent when you do. The body can have better muscle memory when applying force better than travel.

No, you won't stop any faster if you can apply your brake now exactly the same every time. Very few can unless they're in the alien category.

Plus, it's way easier to H&T with a brake load cell because the brake pedal doesn't move.

#6 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Feb 11 2019 - 08:59 AM

I forgot to mention. Putting foam under your pedal is not the same as a load cell. The foam still has to be squashed to get more brake. You're still depending on movement. A load cell doesn't need to move at all. It's the pressure you apply to it that gives more brake. You can setup a load cell so stiff that the brake pedal doesn't move at all. You'll think the brake is broken and locked up when you first try it. However, if you slowly apply pressure to it the brake will slowly come on. In the software you can adjust how much pressure you want to apply to get full brake. It won't change the movement of the pedal. It will just change how much pressure to apply.

A load cell acts just like the brake in a real car. Street cars have more movement before hitting the hard spot on the brake pedal. Race cars don't hardly move at all. A modern F1 cars brake pedal feels locked solid.

#7 bob holada

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Posted Feb 11 2019 - 12:47 PM

I am also an older racer (68). I have used standard Logitech pedals(with a squash ball to give resistance) and now have a Fanatec Load cell brake.
Pedals that are mounted securely and a chair that will not slide easily, are a minimum. I struggle with braking.  There is just not enough sensory feedback.

#8 Millennium

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Posted Feb 11 2019 - 03:33 PM

Weather it's worth it... If you can afford it I would say it is. I've used a stressbal behind my G25 brake pedal but at the end of the day it's still a potentiometer with all it's flaws.
What Pete says about consitency is very much truth, load cells are way way better for that. I still often struggle with consistent braking after 9 months of driving with a G25 set. I've tried Heusinkveld pedals at a friend of mine and it's allows so much more finesse once you get the feeling for it. At some point it just feels natural, something I've never had with Logitech pedals. The Heusinkveld pedals are crazy expensive, you get what you pay for though.

In my opinion you don't need a direct drive wheel, but I would say a load cell brake is well worth the investement. It's defenitely the first thing on my list for upgrading my simrig.

Edited by Millennium, Feb 11 2019 - 03:38 PM.


#9 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Feb 11 2019 - 04:48 PM

I wore out my old Fanatec V2 pedals. They had a load cell but I never liked it. I just got my Fanatec V3 pedals and they're much better. If you consider them they're $325 and are a real solid pedal. All metal of course. Well worth the money. Not sure if you'd gain much with the real high end pedals.

I have an older Fanatec Porsche GT3 wheel. It still works good after a gazillion miles on it. Enough miles to wear out the V2 pedals. I'm saving up for the Fanatec direct drive wheel. Pretty pricey right now. I'm hoping the price will come down but not real hopefull. Fanatec wants $1000 for the base and then you have to add a wheel to it. Another $200-$300. Cripes! I thought fly fishing was expensive. Actually, it is. Then I have muzzleloader hunting. No wonder i'm always broke.

#10 Spadowski

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Posted Feb 11 2019 - 06:09 PM

I bought a Thrustmaster T300 that came with great pedals and a rubber block to mount to add resistance to the brakes when you press them. What I've discovered is really jamming the brakes on now causes the pedals to lift up off the floor.

So I'm having to adjust the sensitivity quite a lot to find the sweet spot.

#11 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Feb 11 2019 - 07:00 PM

You have to bolt down pedals with load cell or foam. Thrustmaster...great pedals?

#12 albergman

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Posted Feb 11 2019 - 08:45 PM

Thanks guys for the thoughtful input.   So, it seems the answer to my query is NO ... The car won't stop in a shorter distance due to better/different pedals.     Certainly food for thought regarding load cells and though they might help my technique (insert laugh  :woot:)  I don't think I'm a serious enough gamer to warrant the expenditure.
I do use a crushable "thing" under my brake pedal ... it's been there so long I don't remember what it is and the pedal housing is against a wall so they don't slide away during braking.

I guess I'll stick with the present setup until something breaks.

Frank

#13 Paddy the Irishman

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Posted Feb 12 2019 - 03:44 AM

You might like to read
  • "Braking in Sims Paddy's variable resistor mod"
  • in the 'Technical stuff'' column on the Grand Prix Legends Ultimate links page.  I now have a Logitech G920 and have done a similar electronic modification on it, adding a variable resistor( and AAfind it helps to braking consistency

Edited by Paddy the Irishman, Feb 12 2019 - 03:45 AM.


#14 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Feb 12 2019 - 08:55 AM

View Postalbergman, on Feb 11 2019 - 08:45 PM, said:

Thanks guys for the thoughtful input.   So, it seems the answer to my query is NO ... The car won't stop in a shorter distance due to better/different pedals. Certainly food for thought regarding load cells and though they might help my technique (insert laugh  :woot:)  I don't think I'm a serious enough gamer to warrant the expenditure.
I do use a crushable "thing" under my brake pedal ... it's been there so long I don't remember what it is and the pedal housing is against a wall so they don't slide away during braking.

I guess I'll stick with the present setup until something breaks.

Frank


I'm not telling you to go buy new pedals but I do want to make one comment.

Your main question is with a load cell help me stop in a shorter distance. The answer is really yes and no. No it won't stop the car any better than the car is capable of stopping. This depends on the power of the brakes and the grip from the tires. However, a load cell will help you apply maximum brake without locking up.

So, the bottom line is if you can apply maximum brake without locking up 100% of the time. Then a load cell won't help. I believe an alien can't do that. Although they'll come closer than the average racer.

If you never overshoot a turn or lock up the brakes. You don't need a load cell.

#15 albergman

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Posted Feb 12 2019 - 09:46 AM

View PostPete Gaimari, on Feb 12 2019 - 08:55 AM, said:

I'm not telling you to go buy new pedals but I do want to make one comment.

Your main question is with a load cell help me stop in a shorter distance. The answer is really yes and no. No it won't stop the car any better than the car is capable of stopping. This depends on the power of the brakes and the grip from the tires. However, a load cell will help you apply maximum brake without locking up.

So, the bottom line is if you can apply maximum brake without locking up 100% of the time. Then a load cell won't help. I believe an alien can't do that. Although they'll come closer than the average racer.

If you never overshoot a turn or lock up the brakes. You don't need a load cell.

OK thanks for that final thought Pete and I understand your reasoning.    I certainly do have trouble with brake lock-ups and find I have to play a lot with the balance between front and rears.   It sure would be interesting to actually experience what you describe and to see what it brings to my driving (or not).    As I've said before, I just drive by myself nowadays and I don't think I could justify the expense of load-cell pedals.

Thanks again for all the input guys.

#16 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Feb 12 2019 - 09:50 AM

Nothing wrong with that. Have fun. :)

#17 twinpotter

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Posted Feb 12 2019 - 10:46 AM

Back in the eighties Pete, near me, I was travelling through the Yorkshire Dales National Park. Qaint roads, lovely scenes in typical UK farming country.
On my Triumph 750 Bonneville I rolled along, singing and whistling happily. Until my load cell drum and disc breaks didn't work. To my embarrassment straight through a farm gate and into the adjacent field, full of cow pats 😂😂😁😁😎😎

Typical poor Bonny breaks. Just like a tennis ball 😂😂

TP: 🏁

#18 Pete Gaimari

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Posted Feb 12 2019 - 10:51 AM

I had Triumph Bonneville too. Nice bike but we had a saying for British bikes.

When they stopped leaking oil. They were out of oil. :)

#19 Lee200

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Posted Feb 12 2019 - 01:02 PM

I had a more modern 2007 Triumph Bonneville and really liked it.  Put about 15,000 miles on it before getting a BMW.  Never had any problems and it ran like a top.  Triumph has come a long way from the '60s as far as reliability goes.

Of course their old bike electrics were made by Lucas...the Prince of Darkness.  :)

#20 albergman

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Posted Feb 12 2019 - 01:49 PM

View Posttwinpotter, on Feb 12 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:


On my Triumph 750 Bonneville I rolled along, singing and whistling happily.

That was the problem TP ... nobody can sing and whistle at the same time!   Especially when riding a bike too!

I had several AJS's, Matchless, one BSA and a Vincent Rapide (for 3 months) back in the day.   Sold my last bike (82 Honda 750 SuperSport) in '90.    Last summer on my 80th b'day my nephew let me take one of his sport bikes and we went for my first ride in 30 years ... great thrill but I knew it would/should probably be my last ride.   You think you have braking problems in GPL?   Try it in the real world on a sport bike!!




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